[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

Sad story, that, about your grandmum. Hmm, different cultures, different strokes. I don't know anyone here who would condone the extreme forms of shunning. There are families who get into a tiff and won't speak, but by and large I think around here people sense that shunning contributes to a worsening of the situation rather than a healing or a true correction. I don't know many who would refuse to speak. 'course, maybe that's the influence of a culture which leans more to therapists than to dogmatics.

It's quite dark really, but was incredibly common in the Irish immigrant community in Liverpool and other cities My other grandmother also married outside her faith but nobody was bothered much as it wasn't an issue in her community, and nobody also worried about her combining going to a CofE church and adhering to the catholic catachism.

Interesting point about the pressure put on Tolkien over his teenage infatuation with Edith. Clearly, the event was formative given their tombstone reads "Beren and Luthien." He "went along with it" but he wasn't in a particularly strong position at the time, and that does not mean he didn't have thoughts about it later in life. (Carpenter did, if I recall the biography correctly.)

I shall have to read some more on his later thoughts. He must have been a pretty good catch at any rate, for Edith to break off an engagement when he returned as that would have made her look ever so slightly 'loose' in those days!

However, I'm not the one to make direct or uncomplicated links between an author's bio and his life and this isn't the thread to start that topic! Certainly, consider the character Tolkien gave the shunning to--Smeagol/Gollem. It fits so well with psychiatric theories of the abuses of extreme shunning that I can't help but wonder how much Tolkien thought about belonging. Certainly, the theme of the fellowship, the ties of the four hobbits, and Sam and Frodo's friendship all point towards community as being an essential Good in the tale and to put one beyond that is, to put them beyond the pale. so to speak.

I actually think there's a lot in the fact that Gollum effectively became a 'lone wolf' - there are few in Middle-earth who live alone in that way (even Tom has Goldberry, and Saruman has the White Council and then Grima). Tolkien doesn't seem to write of characters who live alone as being all that 'good'; most live in communities or partnerships or belong to some greater group - Aragorn and his Rangers for example.