[Gordis]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I find it hard to sympathize with either the Nazgûl betrayed by the Nine, or the Dwarves who possessed the Seven.
Morthoron seems to overall have the right of this. The desire of power beyond one's innate abilities is never represented as a wholly positive virtue in Tolkien's world. He said as much in Letter # 131:

Actually we must distinguish what we are talking about: 1. our ability to sympathize with Tolkien characters, 2. Tolkien’s own assessment of them in the Letters etc. or 3. (I don’t even know how to put it) maybe what we perceive as objective view…

1. Our ability to sympathize with characters varies greatly. You find it hard to feel sympathy for the Nine Men and the Dwarves who got the Seven, while I am able to sympathize with almost anyone: certainly the nazgul, Boromir, Denethor, Saruman, Isildur, Ar-Pharazon, and even sometimes (though it is harder) with Gollum, Grima, Lotho, the Mouth, Sauron, Morgoth and Feanor.

2. Tolkien assessment of good and evil should certainly be taken into consideration, even it it differs from our own views. Yes, for Tolkien “power” is an ominous word, and those who desire “power beyond the measure of their kind” are condemned. Also he strongly condemns hubris and impatience. He is all for humility and patience. Yet, even with these standards, I feel he is a bit partial to his characters: there are his favorite ones who get a lot forgiven. Take his good Aragorn. His goal in life? To become King of the reunited Kingdom. Isn’t it desire for power? Now as to “beyond the measure of his kind” – sorry, but he brought an army of Dead to Pelargir, to fight the living. When the Witch-King had done something similar (sent the Wights to the Barrows of Cardolan), he was universally blamed. And so on.

3. An objective view perhaps is unattainable, but we may try…

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Men seem to have wanted the Nine to gain Power for its own sake, evidenced by what they used them for: to be invisible, to see things in the shadows that were hidden from others, to increase their stature among their peers. What 'good' reason could they have had for wanting the Nine, regardless of their character before they received them?

There is a great selection of possible decent reasons: to fight Sauron’s magick (same reasons as Gandalf and Galadriel have in LOTR), to become Kings and/or to marry beloved women (same reason as with Aragorn), to defend their countries (same as Baromir and Denethor), to promote progress, order and technology (same as Sauron and Saruman). Even to try and prolong Men’s lives is a worthy reason –aren’t we all striving to do this even now? Yes, in Tolkien’s world it is frowned upon, as it is against the Design of Eru, but then the Elves who forged the Rings and the ones who used the Three in the Third Age to prevent fading or for other things are at least as guilty – in fact much more, because they knew full well what exactly they were doing and whose know-how they were using.

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Sauron appears to have basically said, "Here are some magic rings, use them as you will, discover their powers". And so they did.

It may have been like that with Easterling and Southron nazgul. They had hardly heard about the designs of Eru, about the Valar etc. while in the Second Age Sauron of Mordor was regarded as a worthy ally, benefactor, if not as God. Why question his gifts?

Yet with Numenorean nazgul it had to be far harder: Sauron was the Enemy, and what is more, recently conquered enemy. Pride, if nothing else, wouldn’t allow them to listen to him readily or turn to his side willingly. I don’t believe Sauron had approached them straight-on, most likely he had come in disguise to thrust the rings upon his chosen victims. He could pose as an Elf, refugee of Eregion: “Please keep this Elven ring, Lord, it is the last of the Nine…Sauron hunts me, but he mustn’t get it,” or he could invent another scheme. Sauron was very clever and very sly. The fact that the Elves chose to keep all the matter of the Rings secret from their allies the Numenoreans did help Sauron’s designs a lot. A timely warning from the Elves could have alerted the future nazgul, but then again, the Elves had no idea about Sauron’s new plan to give rings to other races. They didn’t know Men were in danger.

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I don't think Men, however, were more vulnerable to 'avarice' then the Dwarves. It is stated that inflaming their desire for wealth was the only power exercised over the Dwarves by the Seven. Their 'immunity' to the other effects of the Rings though, was only due to their fundamental makeup and not something they were able to consciously effect.

Yes, I agree. Rings work on one’s fundamental desires: power and long life for Men, slowing Time and preservation for Elves, riches for Dwarves, wondrous gardens for hobbit gardeners, fish for Gollums. The Dwarves were fundamentally different from Elves and Men – it seems they had no access to the Spirit World whatsoever. Maybe that’s why it was rumored among Elves that Dwarves had no souls…

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Even the Three were not completely 'good': they too enhanced the powers of the possessor, but it seems the Elves were able to use the Three because they were somewhat protected from corruption by the unnatural power they had gained by the underlying purposes of them: preservation and healing, as stated by Gordis.

Elves were able to use the Three only AFTER Sauron lost his Ring. In the Second age they were afraid (and rightly) to wear their Rings even for a minute. But they were afraid only because they knew about the existence of the One and that Sauron had it. The Nine Men didn’t know about it, so they got caught. According to Sauron’s original plan, Elves would have been in the nazgul’s place.

I have to go, I will reply to Morthoron later…