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Old 12-02-2008, 11:45 AM   #5
Legate of Amon Lanc
A Voice That Gainsayeth
 
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
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Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inziladun View Post
If we take Gandalf's word that is was not he who appeared to the three, it must have been Saruman, whether physically present or not. To me, the presence of another old man who just happened to be in the area and refused Aragorn's offer of fire and company would strain credibility. I would be inclined to think he was actually there, looking for evidence of the Ring, or at least Merry and Pippin.
Of course it was Saruman, that is clear enough, and the reason for him being out there are just the ones you say. The only question is whether he'd be there in person or just as a phantom.

I have been little puzzled though, if I recall, didn't the old man smile at Aragorn&co? I could imagine that if he found the Orcs dead, and presumed them having the Ring first, he would be scared to death! (Now somebody surely has the Ring - who? Sauron? The Rohirrim? These three guys???) He acted very calm. Okay, maybe that would speak also for that not being Saruman in person - this was just a harmless phantom, Saruman in flesh and blood would have shown the three guys some of his power to get them to answer his questions (or hand over the Ring). The only thing I can think of about stopping a live Saruman from doing that is that he would be more afraid of the three guys than he gave away, possibly afraid of them having the Ring and being powerful enough to use it against them? Or that he thought them merely "some three wanderers", which would be most weird, though: and Elf and a Dwarf, and just by chance close to the place where the Orcs were killed. If he was scared of them, I could imagine him at least scaring away their horses, if he couldn't do anything else. But I find it now actually more probable (after thinking about it) that it was really just a phantom of Saruman, not Saruman himself (although until this far, I presumed it was Saruman, without giving it much thought).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitanna View Post
If Saruman was a phantom he had made this phantom with such perfection it was taken from flesh and blood which would mean he'd have to make a lot of noise or some great display to scare war horses off. I think rather Saruman (or phantom) was just out wandering about like he was prone to do.
I think actually the phantom, if it was "done well", may have scared the horses pretty well. He came to them and said "boo boo" and lit his eyes, and there was most likely something unnatural to be felt about the phantom just because it was a phantom. So, if the animals could feel the phantom at all (which they must have, as they reacted - of course all this is done with the assumption that it was indeed a phantom), they would have been very likely to feel something unnatural about it, thus, be far more easily scared. And remember for example the Hobbits' ponies on the Barrow-Downs: they, unlike their masters, knew far better not to get near to the Barrow-Wights, and this may have been a similar thing for the horses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alatar View Post
Or maybe it was Tom Bombadil's shyer brother...
Older brother, eh? Oh no, wait... TB is "Eldest"... in that case, younger brother. Ha, what does it mean then? The Bombadils' look the older, the younger they are! A very interesting contribution to the obscure topic of Bombadilology.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuor in Gondolin View Post
Saruman was, I think, almost certainly not there in person,
but projecting some sort of wraith
Projecting? Hmm... "Lord Uglúk?" "Yes, Master." "We have a new enemy. The young Hobbit who destroyed the Death Star..."
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories
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