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Old 10-08-2008, 07:37 PM   #27
Morthoron
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Groin Redbeard View Post
As for Dwarves being more powerful than elves, I think I've finally found a fitting referance that is worthy of their skill.
I'm sorry, but I believe you are reading a bit more into the passage than Tolkien intended. Certainly, the Dwarves were brave and deserve their due for fighting the dragon, but you seem to be overlooking some points:

1) There were many Dwarves with Azaghal encircling Glaurung (much like when the Dwarves murdered Thingol). This was not single combat (again, going back to the original premise of the thread).

2) The Dwarves were better equipped armor-wise to withstand the fires of Glaurung.

3) They did not kill the dragon. Azaghal only wounded him with his blade (Turin, a man, did a more complete job of sword thrusting).

4) When their king was killed the Dwarves bore him off the field -- and left. They gave up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Groin Redbeard View Post
This is the only thing that the Noldor had going for them the entire day. When everything went wrong for them the Dwarves kept them from total destruction pitting themselves against the most horrible of all Morgoth's creation: dragons, and drove them from the field. Unlike the elves or men who had nothing going for them that day, the Dwarves succeeded in their duty against all odds, against the mightiest creatures that Morgoth could throw at them, besides the Balrogs.
Now, see, that's the problem with confining an entire battle to a single quote. Had you read the previous page of the Sil, you would have found this important information:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Of the Fifth Battle
Some have said that even then the Eldar would have won the day, had all their hosts proved faithful...[and then a paragraph later] Yet neither by wolf, nor Balrog, nor by Dragon, would Morgoth have achieved his end, but for the treachery of Men.
So saying that the only thing the Noldor had going for them the entire day was the Dwarves is a fallacy. The deciding factor in Morgoth's victory was the treachery of Men, a point Tolkien reiterated twice. The Dwarves certainly saved the Eastern army of the Noldor after they were decimated by treachery, and deserve renown for their battle with Glaurung, but you have to take the whole battle in context.

And in regards to single combat (aside from Hurin's glorious last stand), there is the battle between Fingon and Gothmog:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Of the Fifth Battle
Gothmog, Lord of the Balrogs, high-captain of Angband, was come; and he drove a dark wedge between the Elvenhosts, surrounding King Fingon...That was a grim meeting. At last Fingon stood alone with his guard dead about him; and he fought with Gothmog, until another Balrog came behind him and cast a thong of fire about him. Then Gothmog hewed him with his black axe, and a white flame sprang up from the helm of Fingon as it was cloven.
This seems to indicate a fair fight until a second Balrog bound Fingon with fire. Since there really is no noted instance of single combat between a Dwarf and a Noldor, I can only refer you to the Battle of Sarn Athrad, where Beren (an Edain) "fought his last fight, and himself slew the Lord of Nogrod, and wrested from him the Necklace of the Dwarves." If Beren could do such a deed of arms (and he was not even the most renowed warrior of the Edain), I see no reason why Fingolfin, Ecthelion or Glorfindel could not do the same.
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