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davem · 08-24-2008, 04:38 AM

Its less a matter of graphic depictions of violence in war, more of the fact that death in battle in M-e is depicted (in the main - there are odd exceptions) as glorious, as tragic, certainly as heroic - but virtually never as being as ugly, dirty & sick as death in medieval battle actually was. But is that OK, as 'its fantasy'?

EDIT.

I think this brings up a number of questions as regards Tolkien's attitude to warfare - is he saying via his depiction of battles in his fiction 'This is what medieval warfare was like.' ?(clearly wrong - medieval battles were not such 'chivalrous' affairs), or is he saying 'This is what battles ought to be like.' ?(big moral question there - should violent death be presented in such an 'uplifting' way?). Or is he simply saying 'This is how battles are fought in my fantasy world.'? Why would Tolkien, who had seen real death in battle (he referred to the 'animal horror' of the Somme) want to present battle in such a 'sanitised' way? And do we excuse him because he wrote 'fantasy'? When does fantasy become lying?

(yes, I am being provocative.....)

08-24-2008, 04:38 AM	#20
davem Illustrious Ulair Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties Posts: 4,240	Its less a matter of graphic depictions of violence in war, more of the fact that death in battle in M-e is depicted (in the main - there are odd exceptions) as glorious, as tragic, certainly as heroic - but virtually never as being as ugly, dirty & sick as death in medieval battle actually was. But is that OK, as 'its fantasy'? EDIT. I think this brings up a number of questions as regards Tolkien's attitude to warfare - is he saying via his depiction of battles in his fiction 'This is what medieval warfare was like.' ?(clearly wrong - medieval battles were not such 'chivalrous' affairs), or is he saying 'This is what battles ought to be like.' ?(big moral question there - should violent death be presented in such an 'uplifting' way?). Or is he simply saying 'This is how battles are fought in my fantasy world.'? Why would Tolkien, who had seen real death in battle (he referred to the 'animal horror' of the Somme) want to present battle in such a 'sanitised' way? And do we excuse him because he wrote 'fantasy'? When does fantasy become lying? (yes, I am being provocative.....) __________________ “Everything was an object. If you killed a dwarf you could use it as a weapon – it was no different to other large heavy objects." Last edited by davem; 08-24-2008 at 05:16 AM.