Quote:
Originally Posted by Lush
Hmmm. I'm reading your posts here, Morthoron, and I'm disagreeing with the notion that it's an "either or" scenario in regards to Gollum, or that mercy is always at odds with self-interest. We are merciful to others, because we are good and because we'd like to treat others the way we would like to be treated ourselves. Gandalf, meanwhile, felt that Gollum had a part to play yet.
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Did I say that mercy is always at odds with self-interest? I am sorry if it seemed like an implication; however, given Tolkien's predisposition regarding spirituality, it would seem that, rather than enightened self-interest, mercy, pity and forgiveness are a matter of faith (ideals if you will), meant to be practiced even if danger or death are a likely outcome (such as Jesus forgiving those who crucified him, or Gandhi forgiving his assassin). In like case, and following Tolkien's thought processes, I don't believe Gandalf was being utilitarian or necessarily self-interested in saying Gollum had a part to play, because he added the caveat 'for good or ill'. Fate plays heavily in the outcome of the novel, not enlightened self-interest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lush
I think there is such a thing as pure altruism, but it's a state we strive for, not a state we necessarily achieve as human beings. And I think that there is blessing and providence in the act of striving. I'm not entirely sure if Tolkien would agree with me here, but I saw shades of that in Gollum's story.
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As I stated previously, Frodo striving towards the ideal expounded by Gandalf was the determinate factor in a serendipitous outcome; that Frodo failed in his personal objective was overcome by his adherence to the ideal throughout the books. Sam, who wanted Gollum dead, was the voice of reason, utility and self-interest (and in the heat of the moment, one can't blame Mr. Gamgee for wishing an untimely end for the treacherous Gollum); however, Frodo looked beyond the present danger and overcame the human penchant for violent short-term advantage for something that borders on the altogether altruistic (again, given the clear and present dangers presented to the Hobbits).