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Anyway, Menelien, the problem with relying on personal responsiblity with knowing where to draw the line is that we are, as humans, imperfect creatures. We can never keep ourselves perfect - even to our own standards. So, we never completely are able to draw a line for ourselves. Also, what defines a criminal? To what extent does the law takeover? And what does the law regulate? If being a criminal is doing wrong, then we are all criminals to some extent.
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Exactly. The point of not being perfect is striving to become better. We may never become perfect, but the trying in itself is worth that. The fact that you've made yourself better is much better, I think, than being that good in the first place. And, of course, to some extent, we are all criminals. But only at a certain point the law takes over. Before that point, we need to restrain ourselves, and help others do this too. Even if you are religious, you know that God may set rules, but does not reinforce them. Of course, there's Hell and all, but not during your life. If you're not religious, it's even harder, because there's no Hell or any sort of punishment ahead for you.
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There is a spiritual law and a physical law. The spiritual law was made beyond man. It dictates how man should live in order to lead a productive, successful life. Without it, men can not live responsibly.
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Wouldn't you say that there were and are many wonderful men and women in the world, leading totally responsible, helpful, good lives, who are not religious? I think that spiritual law exists, except that I would put it more as menatl law, because I personally don't believe that there is a source of good and a source of evil outside of us. I believe that a generally good person may be good because they made their own rules or because God made their rules for them. As long as they follow them, they can be good people.
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Ignoring parts of the standard or leaving parts of the standard open for debate will result in chaos and evil.
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That is what I don't agree with. I don't think that they should be, as you put it, "open for debate" in the literal sense, I just think that a man or woman should be able to have a choice. If they choose badly, of course it's a loss, of course that person's life is now not as good as it could be, but the matter of choice is there. I don't think of it as a good idea to follow certain ideals blindly, no matter what happens.
~Menelien
[ May 13, 2003: Message edited by: GaladrieloftheOlden ]