[Lord Tataraus]

Greeting's my fellow LotR-fans, I have just recently joined this forum after a bit of lurking and I would like to see what the Barrowdowners have to say about this interesting perspective on Gandalf. For a bit of backstory, I frequent a RPG forum focusing on D&D. In one thread we were discussing how the Fellowship would translate into D&D terms. One the question of Gandalf there was much debate and it sparked one poster to present his view of Gandalf, here are his claims contained within two posts:

Originally Posted by Lord_Kimboat

Despite some of my criticisms in other posts, I am actually a fan of LotR. However, you might have to clarify a few things. First, are you trying to stat the characters from the films or the book? Are you trying for what the author intended or just what is observed?

One of the few things I dislike about LotR (the book as author intended) is how noble and righteous everyone and thing is. People respect Aragorn because he is the heir without having a reason of knowing that he is the heir or because he does anything noteworthy. Sam's respect for Frodo is almost fawning and is definitely part of some class structure as Sam is clearly tougher and usually has better judgement than Frodo.

Gandalf says he is a wizard but rarely (if ever) casts spells. The book also explains he is of some near godly race and everyone seems to accept this. However, being a little more cynical, we can see that Gandalf benefits from his reputation as a wizard and his actions fit most closely with those of a bard. He produces fireworks and illusions, he obviously has a great deal of charisma as he commands respect almost everywhere he goes and isn't afraid to bluff people either. He is even chalked up on knowledge skills.

Also, if you take only what is witnessed by others, it explains far better his fall in Moria and reappearance. He didn't fight the Balrog in an epic battle that "smote the mountainside" where he was then raised from the dead so that he could help a little more. No! He fell, but grabbed something below the bridge and managed to get to safety - or even cast a low level spell to stop him from falling to his death. He then escapes Moria but when confronted weaves a great story about what a powerful wizard he is.

Don't even get me started on why he has one of the rings for Elven Kings, when he is clearly neither.

second post:

Originally Posted by Lord_Kimboat

Okay, so my suspicious mind has Gandalf as the not quite so noble Bard who somewhat fraudulently claims to be a wizard so people respect him more. I mean come on, people in these forums will tell you that wizards, especially high level wizards with some cheesy race with LA, will pwn just about anything. While Bards can be beaten by three goblins, a stiff breeze and Fifi the Wonder Dog. I'd lie about it as well.

So, how does Gandalf get the ring? He goes down to the docks (yeah, nothing dishonest ever happens there) and a shipbuilder (or maybe even a stevedore, remember, Gandalf embellishes these things) says, "uh yeah, an Elf headed for the Haven's just gave me this ring. *looks around shiftily* He said he wouldn't need it any more and I could just keep it. But I don't really need it so you, a fine adventuring type should have it."

In short, a successful slight of hand roll and the ring now has a new owner. Enterprising Elven rogue, known to the local authorities as Ciridan, then unloads his magical merchandise for several thousand gold pieces to the first adventurer he can find before the previous owner notices its missing. This is probably one of the reasons why Gandalf doesn't show it off or even use it that much around Elves.

Now we all know the poem. Three rings for Elven Kings. Does it not strike anyone else as odd that none of these rings are actually owned by an Elven king?

Galadriel has the best claim. She is the ruler of a small, but perfectly functional kingdom. However, female kings are usually referred to as Queens.

Elrond has a ring but Rivendell is quite clearly a 'house' not a kingdom. Also, he is not exactly 100% Elven either.

Gandalf is clearly not an Elf (the lack of pointy ears is a giveaway) and seems lucky to own his own clothes much less a kingdom!

There is though, one Elven king around, Thirandiril - Logolas' father. Now I know the Tolkien fans will start jumping up and down at this point complaining about High Elves and nobility, etc, etc. However, we know that Thirandiril isn't exactly adverse to breaking the law. He did abduct and hold prisoner a party of Dwarves and a Halfling just for straying into his kingdom. Also, Legolas strikes me as an Elf of action rather than a stickler for niceties or fine points of heritage.

Thus I have a theory. Thirandiril certainly knows the poem and it doesn't say 'three rings for HIGH Elven kings', but just 'Elven kings'. He is an Elven king and thus wants this magical piece of bling for himself. He sends his boy to the nearest Elven ring that he knows about, Elrond with the message, "hand it over."

When Legolas gets there though, he discovers (or maybe Elrond points out) that Gandalf has a ring and is neither Elf nor king and that would be a much nicer present for daddy. Thus Legolas joins the party with a hidden agenda. Gandalf may have discovered this and thus fakes his own death to cover for it. When he is caught, he spins the story of dying and coming back naked (without the ring).

Granted, this is all from my very cynical mind and I find it much easier to attribute motives of self interest to people rather than ones of nobility. This may seem sad but if you don't believe me, try watching the news some time. Our politicians, our business people and even our holy men and women almost always have motivations of self interest. They will quite often resort to lies and deception as a first resort. Maybe Tolkein didn't see that or didn't want it in his world but it is what people are like and I have a hard time suspending my disbelief if people don't act that way.

Disclaimer: I have included all content of the posts in question save one sentence which was a direct response to a side-topic discussion. I don't support these views above, but would like to see what scholars of the works of Tolkien can come up with to either disprove or support this theory.