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Old 04-17-2008, 07:09 PM   #33
Morthoron
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Animalmother View Post
Saruman's rhetoric and actions are those of a modern leftist progressive politician. As such, Saruman connects with us moderns. Gandalf, who is a defender of tradition with a rigid view of absolute good and evil in politics, does not.,
Saruman a leftist? Nah, if anything he's fascistic and a petty dictator subservient to a greater power (a la Mussolini to Hitler), but that is all academic, really. It's nice to conjecture about placing modernistic terminology on a major antagonist like Saruman in LotR, but you must first look to Tolkien's direct statement regarding Saruman's character:

Quote:
from the Foreword to Fellowship of the Ring:
...the character of Saruman as developed in the story without, need I say, any allegorical significance or contemporary political reference whatsoever,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Animalmother View Post
Saruman is a politician-Wizard of the Left, who has presciently adopted as his own symbol a symbol of the modern Left, the rainbow of many colors. Gandalf, like his fellow Elven Ring bearers, is a reactionary who wants to defend and to keep all things exactly as they are.
You misunderstood the meaning of Saruman's cloak of many colors. He was Saruman the White, but through corruption has fragmented white light into a prismic collage that is all colors and none at all. He has fallen from the standard (which later would be assumed by Gandalf the White after his death and purgation). Later in the tale when Gandalf meets Saruman, it is Gandalf who is radiant and Saruman who is cloaked in dirty gray. And I would not necessarily term Gandalf and the Elves 'reactionaries'; they are conservatives in the truest sense of the word.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Animalmother View Post
Saruman is a modernizer. He has lost patience with the laissez faire, consensus driven policy of his fellow Istari, and, seeing the need for rapid change, would concentrate power in himself as Chief Executive of the Free People.
Saruman is certainly modernistic in his compulsion towards technology (total war, propaganda, explosives, etc.), but it is not due to policies of politics, but rather of power. The Ring has ensnared him and he desperately seeks it in an effort to displace Sauron as the Great Dark Lord of Middle-earth. You are reading a philosophy into the text which is not warranted and is expressly denied by the author.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Animalmother View Post
Saruman is a mediator. He believes that an accommodation can be reached with Sauron that will satisfy Sauron's will to power, without sacrificing everything Saruman has sworn to protect.
Nonsense. Sauron is a manipulator and a traitor to both the Free People and Sauron. He played both sides against the other and lied to both in order to take the Ring.

I could reply at length to each of your statements, but I haven't the time currently. Needless to say, I think you might want to read further regarding the author's intent, rather than reading your own philosophy into a story that is implicity not in accord with modern politics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bêthberry View Post
You know, if only I could figure out where Tom and Goldberry fall in this, it might provide some proper applicability, because Tom and Goldberry also have powerful voices, albeit in a different tone.
Beth, in Animalmother's lexicon Tom and Goldberry are ageing, nihilistic hippies waiting for the next Grateful Dead tour (which is why they are camped out near the Barrow Downs -- not to mention Tom's penchant for outlandish color combinations).
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Last edited by Morthoron; 04-17-2008 at 07:57 PM.
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