[Sophia the Thunder Mistress]

Wow! I am awed... Bill Ferny, that was a much more understandable description of Just War Theory than my Ethics prof (a rabid pacifist) gave, I think you just enabled me to raise my grades. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] And all while being extremely relevant.

And Menelien- insightful.

Willie:

And there always doesn't have to be a right and/or a wrong. Both sides can be wrong. They can both do wrong deeds. All that matters is which is worse, but does that really matter? And both sides can be right too, there might be just a misunderstanding. It does happen.

I don't think this is what aragornreborn meant. I think he was saying that even when both parties are wrong, there is something right and neither party happens to be doing it.

Menelien:

But one of the roots of fantasy is that there is a "somebody" who is really and truly evil. In real life, everybody has a good side. (Oh, how sweet... ) But in Middle Earth... well, the closest to that that you can get is having once been good, and then gone bad (eg, Saruman.) You're not going to be able to tell us that Melkor had a peaceful side to his heart, that he spent his free time gardening and going to anti-war demonstrations.

Aaah, but there are good sides to bad characters in ME! How could anyone forget Smeagol/Gollum? That scene where Tolkien describes him as looking like a very old hobbit with his hand on Frodo's knee makes me cry every time I read it (I believe it's in the Stairs of Cirith Ungol). But there is little doubt in my mind which way Gollum actually went.

This conflict is seen in "good" characters too, Boromir, Denethor, and even Galadriel have moments where they look very dark, I'm not even certain that I classify Denethor as a good character by the end of his life.

Bill Ferny- you pointed out Jesus' "turn the other cheek" passage, and then that one of his disciples (I'm assuming you mean Peter at the betrayal) had a sword on his person. I thought I'd point out that it isn't surprising that Peter had a sword, as in (I believe it's Luke??) Jesus instructed the disciples to buy swords.

As for Tolkien's view of War I think the two quotes, Sam's and Eowyn's sum it up nicely. Sam feels the horror of it, and Eowyn sees the necessity of it for defense. Both of them prove able to see the other side, Sam kills and Eowyn becomes a healer.

Sophia

Edit:

I think what grandpappy was trying to say was: “Hey, shut-up already! I’m trying to watch Lawrence Welk.”

LOL! Your grandpappy and mine would have liked each other... [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

And as for Trippo's comment... I'm beginning to have flashbacks to some of my logic classes... principle of non-contradiction?

[ May 06, 2003: Message edited by: Sophia the Thunder Mistress ]