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Old 02-14-2008, 12:31 AM   #3
Boromir88
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Lord Halsar, those are some bold statements, but I actually don't think you are too far off the mark.

Who was the better villain? I believe Sauron became the more evil one, or in the very least as evil as Morgoth:
Quote:
In my story I do not deal in Absolute Evil. I do not think there is such a thing, since that is Zero. I do not think that at any rate any 'rational being' is wholly evil. Satan fell. In my myth Morgoth fell before Creation of the physical world. In my story Sauron represents as near an approach to the wholly evil will as is possible.~Letter 183
It's kind of tricky using Tolkien's letters, because they are reflections and therefor Tolkien at times contradicted himself. So, while it's interesting to read the conscious thoughts of the author, they don't always "line up" with what he wrote. Anyway, in this instance however, I think there is a lot of good "stuff" out there to show Sauron, while not starting out as evil as Morgoth, became more evil (or in the very least just as evil as Morgoth).

There it is in Letter 183 where he sets up a comparison between Morgoth and Satan, but goes on to say that in his story, Sauron represented "as near an approach to the wholly evil will as is possible."

I draw attention to "evil will," because I think Tolkien's making a point that Sauron's intentions, what he was attempting to do, was more evil than Morgoth's. But, not necessarily was Sauron more "effective."

And taking this from Letter 156 it certainly seems to set both Morgoth and Sauron on the same level:
Quote:
But in this 'mythology' all the 'angellic' powers concerned themselves with world were capable of many degrees of error and failing between the Absolute Satanic Rebellion of Morgoth and his satellite Sauron, and the faineance of some of the other higher powers or 'gods.'
So, both of them were in "Absolute Satanic Rebellion." Whatever that means, I don't know? Absolute rebellion against Eru? The Valar? Anyway, again, this sets Sauron and Morgoth on par with eachother when it comes to their "evilness."

And in another Letter...
Quote:
The supremely bad motive is (for this tale, since it is specially about it) domination of other ’free’ wills.~Letter 155
This is what I think makes Sauron a bit different from Morgoth. Tolkien said that Morgoth slipped into shear "nihilism" where he was focused on trashing the entire place. He lost his head, so to say, and just wanted to destroy everything. The problem is Morgoth's "goal" is an unattainable one. Morgoth slipped into a stage where all he wanted complete and total destruction; this was impossible.

Where Sauron on the other hand, never falls into this same nihilistic madness as Morgoth, Sauron kept "relics of positive purposes." Sauron loved Order and Co-ordination (two good things to love), but of course Sauron took it to an excessive level...he took it to the level of thraldom. Sauron therefor doesn't want to trash the entire place, he was a lot wiser than Morgoth (and I'll get to that in a bit), he wants to be the "Dark Lord". He has the "supremely bad motive" of dominating the free wills of others.

At first one might ask...well what is more evil of an intention? Running the world as a Dark Lord and have everyone as your slave or completely destroying it? But, the problem again being, Morgoth's goal was unattainable, so now which one had the more evil (the "wiser") plan?

Which brings me to another key difference between Morgoth and Sauron:
Quote:
Morgoth at the time of the War of the Jewels had become permanantly 'incarnate': for this reason he was afraid, and waged the war almost entirely by means and devices, or of subordinates and dominated creatures.
Sauron, however, inherited the 'corruption' of Arda, and only spent his (much more limited) power on the Rings; for it was the creatures of earth, in their minds and wills, that he desired to dominate. In this way, Sauron was also wiser than Melkor-Morgoth. Sauron was not a beginner of discord; and he probably knew more of the 'Music' than did Melkor, whose mind had always been filled with his own plans and devices, and gave little attention to other things.~HoME X: Morgoth's Ring; Myths Transformed
Sauron was "wiser" because of hs desire to dominate everyone's "mind and will" and as it's right there Sauron probably knew more about the Music than Morgoth did.

So, based on all this "good stuff," like I said I don't think you're too far off the mark. Good thread idea, this should spark some nice discussion.
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