[The Saucepan Man]

davem:

Morgoth's behaviour just doesn't make sense to me unless he really is laid back about the whole thing, or at least feels he has plenty of time to take over ME.

But we are only talking about 30 years here, which in terms of an immortal being such as Morgoth who had terrorised ME for thousands of years, is not a great deal of time. It might be seen as akin to a human torturer leaving his subject to suffer for a day or so. And yet it would, no doubt have seemed an eternity to Hurin, who nevertheless remained steadfast throughout. When that ploy didn't work (after only a relatively short time to Morgoth's reckoning), he set Hurin free to see if that might bring him any closer to his desire (locating Gondolin), which it in fact did.

Kuruharan:

As an aside, I’m not sure that just because things turned out a certain way that it represents a negation of Free Will.

Well, it's not a negation of the free will to act in response to particular given situations. Rather it is a negation of the free will to affect the ultimate outcome. I see this as being how the Doom pronounced by Mandos on the exiled Noldor (also referred to as a Curse) worked:

Tears unnumbered ye shall shed ... On the House of Feanor the wrath of the Valar lieth from the West unto the uttermost East, and upon all that follow them it shall be laid also. Their Oath shall drive them, and yet betray them, and ever snatch away the very treasures that they have sworn to pursue. To evil end shall all things turn that they begin well ...

Now. although the actions of the exiled Noldor were not controlled and they were able to determine their own responses to individual situations, the fate pronounced upon them by Mandos nevertheless came true. Circumstances conspired against them to bring this about. Even if you take it as a prophecy, they are nevertheless unable to avoid its outcome, however much they struggle to escape it. I see the Curse pronounced by Morgoth on Hurin's kin in much the same way. It sets in train a chain of events that leads to its ultimate conclusion, namely their utter physical and mental destruction.

I think of limits and restrictions as being bounds or walls around the actions of the character that absolutely prevent said character from acting outside of the bounds of the restriction in question,

I don't see the Curse as being a limitation on the actions of Hurin's Hini, such as might (to use an extreme example) be presented by their incarceration in a doorless cell. They (like the exiled Noldor) were free to determine their individual responses to particular situations. But the situations presented to them, and their responses to those situations, were always fated to lead them to their doom. They were unable to alter the outcome.

What I meant by the term "encumbrance" was more along the lines of a burden weighing down the family and making it more likely that their actions would have disastrous consequences.

Well, it depends on how you say Morgoth's Curse is making this "more likely". If you are saying that it acts by influencing their decisions or emphasising their character failings, making it more likely that they will act in this or that way, then I disagree. But if you are saying that fate is conspiring (through the situations that they are presented with) to increase the likelihood that their decisions have the disastrous consequences that they in fact do have, then we are probably:

... saying the same thing in different ways

Except that I would go so far as to say that fate was conspiring to guarantee this outcome.

Either way, we are most probably:

... splitting hairs about a very abstract concept

But isn't that what this forum is for? [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]