The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - View Single Post - What was Shelob, and more importantly, what was Ungoliant?

William Cloud Hicklin · 01-10-2008, 05:52 PM

An interesting rather Gnostic-Manichaean idea, but:

1 "First of all" Iluvatar made the Ainur, "who were with him before aught else was made"

2 In Tolkien's very monotheist worldview, there was nothing before Eru, and nothing which Eru did not create

3 Eru has no equal. By definition. Besides, would Eru have been driven off by a few Balrogs?

Tolkien's treatment of Melkor is characterized by a *heavy* emphasis that this is *not* a dualist universe: Melkor is constantly being reminded that he is a created being (which he hates, and which drives him mad). Ungoliant does seem to be some sort of darkness-elemental, and a deliberate enigma. Tolkien doesn't want us to know exactly what she was, and perhaps never worked it out for himself_ but then (as with Bombadil) he was aware that in the 'real' world there are always bits that don't seem to fit: total systematic consistency is a hallmark of the artificial.

01-10-2008, 05:52 PM	#14
William Cloud Hicklin Loremaster of Annúminas Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,300	An interesting rather Gnostic-Manichaean idea, but: 1 "First of all" Iluvatar made the Ainur, "who were with him before aught else was made" 2 In Tolkien's very monotheist worldview, there was nothing before Eru, and nothing which Eru did not create 3 Eru has no equal. By definition. Besides, would Eru have been driven off by a few Balrogs? Tolkien's treatment of Melkor is characterized by a heavy emphasis that this is not a dualist universe: Melkor is constantly being reminded that he is a created being (which he hates, and which drives him mad). Ungoliant does seem to be some sort of darkness-elemental, and a deliberate enigma. Tolkien doesn't want us to know exactly what she was, and perhaps never worked it out for himself_ but then (as with Bombadil) he was aware that in the 'real' world there are always bits that don't seem to fit: total systematic consistency is a hallmark of the artificial. __________________ The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it.