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Old 10-09-2007, 06:24 AM   #11
Galin
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,036
Galin is a guest at the Prancing Pony.Galin is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
My view is that flat world notions are but one tradition among others (including traditions that are 'mixed'). Myths Transformed are not the only texts which hint at Round World mythology. In the 'Atlantis' or Númenórean works, for example, I note the following from 'The Theory Of The Work' in The Drowning of Anadûnê

Sketch I (bracketed text):
'The Enkeladim told them that the world was round, but that was a hard saying to them. Some of their great mariners tried to find out.' (An interesting added passage reads: 'Sauron says the world is round. There is nothing outside but Night -- and other worlds.')
Sketch III:
'The ancient Númenóreans knew (being taught by the Eledái) that the Earth was round; but Sauron taught them that it was a disc and flat, and beyond was nothing, where his master ruled.' JRRT, The Drowning of Anadûnê' (though this part appears to have been struck through by Tolkien).
Christopher Tolkien follows the Sketches with an interesting commentary, part of which reads...
'At this time, perhaps, in the context of The Notion Club Papers and of the vast enlargement of his great story that was coming into being in The Lord of the Rings, he began to be concerned with questions of 'tradition' and the vagaries of tradition, the losses, confusions, simplifications and amplifications in the evolution of legend, as they might apply to his own -- within the always enlarging compass of Middle-earth. This is speculation; it would have been helpful indeed if he had at this time left any record or note, however brief, of his reflections. But many years later he did write such a note, though brief indeed, on the envelope that contains the texts of The Drowning of Anadûnê:'
Quote:
'Contains very old version (in Adunaic) which is good -- in so far as it is just as much different (in inclusion and omission and emphasis) as would be probable in the supposed case:
(a) Mannish Tradition
(b) Elvish tradition
(c) Mixed Dúnedanic tradition'

JRRT (Christopher guesses this to have been written sometime in the 1960s)
Christopher guesses it is likely that:

The Drowning of Anadune -- Mannish tradition
The Fall of Numenor -- Elvish tradition
Akallabeth -- Mixed (Mixed Elvish and Numenorean 'he was surely referring to the Akallabeth, in which both the Fall of Numenor and the Drowning of Anadune were used.')

I note too the Legend of the Awakening of the Quendi, said to be 'preserved in almost identical form among both the Elves of Aman and the Sindar' in which the first Elves, Imin, Tata and Enel awoke before dawn in the spring of the year, and at one point Imin and his companions 'walked long by day and by twilight in the country about the lake'. In this tradition the Elves still see the Stars when they first awake, handled beautifully in comparison to other traditions (the Sun as a Tree-flower).

As late as 1971 Tolkien writes (in a letter) about the Immortals who travel to the West, explaining that they followed the Straight Road, left the physical world, including the idea that the Elves who sailed were abandoning history. JRRT touches upon the sojourn of the mortals Oversea as well, and concludes with...
'This general idea lies behind the events of The Lord of the Rings and the Silmarillion, but it is not put forward as geologically or astronomically 'true'; except that some special catastrophe is supposed to lie behind the legends and marked the first stage in the succession of Men to dominion of the world. But the legends are mainly of 'Mannish' origin blended with those of the Sindar (Gray-elves) and others who had never left Middle-earth.'
JRRT, Letter 325, 1971
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