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Old 09-21-2007, 02:38 PM   #12
William Cloud Hicklin
Loremaster of Annúminas
 
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Join Date: Oct 2006
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William Cloud Hicklin is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.William Cloud Hicklin is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.William Cloud Hicklin is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
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But, if they're willing, they can incarnate themselves in hröar, right? And shouldn't the body at least be able to procreate (once they'd be in the same condition and body of Elves, Men, kelvar...)?
Not really. As far as I know, only the Valar (with Eru's express permission) could or did ever act to incarnate spirits of their own kind (ealar) into hroar. It's an essential part of Tolkienian metaphysics that fea and hroa are made for one another, and their separation is unnatural and a result of the Marring.

Orcs: this was a problem Tolkien never satisfactorily worked out. His later thought seems to have been that Orcs were bred from Men, not Elves, under the influence (but not parentage) of "Orc-maiar", who were the original 'shadows and demons' of Cuivienen. These should be considered as akin to the Balrogs, but of much, much lower stature and power- and perhaps seduced by Melkor in Arda, like Sauron, rather than before Creation as the Balrogs were. But of course Tolkien was really just 'thinking with the pen' and didn't develop the idea very far. It is clear though that he never considered them as being biological progenitors of the mortal Orcs.

One would assume that these Orc-maiar had all been destroyed by the end of the War of Wrath- and, having been (physically) killed, were no more capable of bodily 'restoration' than Saruman or Sauron after their final falls.
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The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it.
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