[Elladan and Elrohir]

I don't know that I would call it an insult to Tolkien. He appears to have deeply regretted (in later life) the "childish" tone, and, of course, as StW has pointed out and as we're currently discussing on the "darker Hobbit" thread, he did indeed try to rewrite TH to fit the Legendarium.

But the point I was trying to make there, davem, is not that PJ and Co. could achieve Tolkienian magic by converting TH into a PG-13; as you pointed out, JRRT himself couldn't do that. It's merely that to make a PG-13 Hobbit, whether successfully or not, is not an insult to the author; it's a legitimate means of interpretation, and one that he himself considered.

I think you're likely right about the number of fans outside boards like these who want a Hobbit film: as you say, they generally know nothing of the book and want another LOTR. There are, however, plenty of people on this board and others like it who have read TH just as many as times as LOTR, love it deeply, and still want PJ to make the movie. I am of that number.

Does that mean I don't care about Tolkien's work? I don't think it does. And at any rate I would disagree with your comment about five-year-olds. I think movies require a higher maturity level than books. I read LOTR aloud to my nine-year-old brother (after reading him TH), but he won't be watching the movies for another three years. Obviously that does not eliminate the issue, but it does raise the projected target age, in my opinion. Honestly, all things considered, I'm not sure TH should be, or even would be, PG-13-worthy. Could not PJ make it with the level of violence of, say, Narnia? I see Lion Witch and Wardrobe and TH as being fairly comparable in terms of tone.

So really, I suppose that I'm closer to your point of view than I first thought, davem, even if I am a bit naive to think that PJ would give us a PG Hobbit. I agree that we don't need Bard smooching his made-up girlfriend or Thorin Oakenshield bloodily knocking off goblin heads.

It would seem that the trolls, at any rate, would have to be included in some form near to that of the book, since PJ has already had Bilbo telling the story of their argument and then later showing 'Gorn and the four hobbits beneath the stone figures.

OK, I've said enough for one post.