[obloquy]

Your posts are just rife with inaccuracies and unsubstantiated statements, Finwe. Every post I've seen you make has this same feature.

Deep down inside, he wanted to believe that he was perfect, that he was the greatest of the Eldar.

How do you know what he felt 'deep down inside'?

He may have been such in his skill, but otherwise, he was not.

Tolkien said that Feanor was the greatest of the Eldar in Aman, with the possible exception of Galadriel. He doesn't say anything about his skill being a factor.

That realization simmered bitterly in his heart.

You've got to be kidding. Where do you get this from?

Fëanor kept driving himself to perfection, without listening to anyone, not even Nerdanel or his sons.

I see no evidence at all that Feanor ever sought perfection. Please give an example of this.

When Fëanor found out about Finwë's death, he went completely mad. He had no reason left in him.

So was it pride or madness? Make up your mind.

Feanor was a victim of Melkor who victimized others in his pursuit of vengeance. He was proud, but pride had nothing to do with refusing Yavanna's request, or with wanting what was stolen from him, and it had nothing to do with seeking vengeance for his father's murder. I also can't see the part pride would have played in the Kinslaying. Rather, I would say it was madness and desperation that drove him to that extreme.

Though the light within the silmarils was not Feanor's, they were his creation, and it was his choice to surrender them -- that is why he was given a choice instead of them being confiscated. He did not refuse out of pride, he refused because he loved them and they were a work so great that they could never be duplicated. Aule, at least, understood this.

Where Feanor did show his pride was in speaking against the Valar, but this was aroused by Melkor's lies, and it was understandable. Melkor convinced him that he and the Noldor were to be pets of the Valar, and were summoned to Aman out of jealousy. He then led Feanor to believe that the Valar would try to take the silmarils from him.

Melkor was the root of all this evil, not Feanor.

It was pride and a deep-seated desire for complete independence that led him to accept Annatar's councils when he knew that the latter had been turned away by Gil-galad.

No it wasn't. Where do you get this from? And Annatar wasn't offering council, he was sharing knowledge.

Perhaps I'm giving the High King more credit than he deserves, but I'm sure that he saw straight through Annatar the second that he started talking.

Elrond and Gil-galad doubted Annatar, that is all.

Celebrimbor, on the other hand, was too much like his grandfather for his own good. He wanted knowledge, and he would have it at the cost of all else.

I don't see this in the account, either. Sauron deceived him. It's not like Sauron was slowly twisting Celebrimbor to evil. Sauron made himself seem fair and shared a wealth of knowledge. How can you fault Celebrimbor for this?

His pride made him refuse to see that there was probably a reason for Gil-galad turning away Annatar.

I honestly don't see any issue with pride in the account of Celebrimbor's deception by Sauron. Really, read it again. Celebrimbor was innocent. Perhaps he was naive, but I wouldn't even accuse him of being that.

[ June 24, 2003: Message edited by: obloquy ]