[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by davem

Are you saying that if you had been in Turin's place, experienced what he had, had no faith (because of everything you'd been through), had been, from childhood up, living in a war zone, never knowing when you or those you loved might be killed or enslaved, given your life over to defending your adopted people - mostly living rough too - having lost your parents & sisters through their imprisonment, death or your being sent away in childhood to a strange land ... that having been through all that & more you would never have made one mistake, one bad judgement in the heat of the moment, or done some really stupid things - even wrong things?

Of course not. And of course the situation here posed is yet another extreme; you've made my response to easy to make.

Originally Posted by davem

The most I can say is that I hope I wouldn't have behaved in the way Turin did, but to be frank I can't say I wouldn't.

Not being a warrior myself, I really couldn't say. But this is not about you, nor about me, but about the character Túrin as described by Tolkien.

Originally Posted by davem

As I stated earlier, Frodo, Sam, Aragorn - these are characters we like to identify with, because they do what we hope we'd do in a similar situation. But if we're honest, we're all much more like Turin. I think that's why some readers are made so uncomfortable by him.

Funny thing is that I did identify rather strongly with Túrin until he turned a conveniently blind eye to the evils of the group he was with. His refusal to defend himself to Mablung by saying what really happened, is the kind of thing I have done repeatedly; and I've paid for it ... but that's about me which means I digress. It's not a matter of uncomfortability but disappointment.

Originally Posted by davem

Of course, I would have to ask, given that you consider him such a selfish, narcissistic jerk, you want the reference to his killing of Morgoth to be included?

I said self-centered, not selfish. I did say narcissistic because his behavior fits the definition. I never described him as a jerk. Seeing that the given supplied is so fraught with misappropriations, I'm afraid I must ask for a restatement of the question, should its author wish to seriously re-pose it.

Originally Posted by davem

And now, in the anti-romantic, cynical, frightened & fanatical world of the early 21st century, we have CoH topping the bestseller lists across the world.

Thou dost protest too much, methinks. CoH's bestselling most likely has more to do with it having been authored by Tolkien, and it being a brimming good yarn. These facts do not make Túrin a more noble character.

I suppose one might relate so strongly to Túrin if one had lost faith.