[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by davem

But no-one's being forced to play the game at all.

No, but then they are being excluded from something which they might have been keen to participate in.

Originally Posted by davem

Now this strikes me as a perfect example - 'If gay marriage is not allowed in the game it will result in homophobic behaviour & comments'. That doesn't follow at all.

Sorry, I get your point now. I agree with you on that.

Originally Posted by davem

Now, Tolkien wasn't ignorant - he was obviously aware of the fact of homosexuality. But he chose not to include it in his creation.

He was also aware of the existence of ostriches, but chose not to include them in his creation. Does that mean that they don't exist in M-e? Can we not infer from the fact that something occurs naturally in our world that it also occurs in M-e (or that it is at least capable of occuring in M-e), provided that it is not inconsisitent with anything that he did write about? Tolkien did not specifically refer to same sex relationships, but their existence is not inconsistent with anything that he wrote.

Originally Posted by davem

To permit same sex unions into the world changes it - you're attempting to move it towards a 21st century liberal (or libertarian) utopia, & impose 21st century values.

I do not dispute that same sex marriages (ie formalised unions) do not exist in M-e. But that does not preclude same sex relationships (which have occured throughout our history).