[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Tolkien created Middle Earth, and we are not at liberty to thrust things into that world that are not allowed by his rules, or are at direct variance with the spirit of his work.

But what rules apply here? Are we only at liberty to include within Middle-earth things that are specifically included in Tolkien’s M-e writings? For example, can termites or giraffes exist in M-e, or are they excluded because they are not specifically mentioned? And if we are allowed to include things mentioned in his works, does that mean that we can include golf, football and express trains?

Also, how do you define the “spirit of his work”. Different people will have differing views on this. It might said that tolerance and being true to oneself are upheld as virtues in M-e, in which case it could be argued (convincingly in my view) that same-sex relationships and inter-racial marriages are entirely within its spirit.

Or are you seeking to ban ideas which are not consistent with Tolkien's stated views. I am not sure that we know for certain what his views were on these issues (although I stand to be corrected). You might argue that inference may be made from his religious beliefs, but M-e is not entirely consistent with his religious beliefs. Morevover, as I understand it, his religion does not seek to deny the existence of same-sex relationships, but rather considers them sinful. So does that mean that they could be permitted, provided that they are categorised as a sin? That would hardly be consistent with the qualities that I mentioned earlier, although it would allow dissenting players to "love the sinner but hate the sin".

My own view, for what its worth, is that there is room within M-e (in terms of fan-fic, role-playing games and the like) for anything which is not inconsistent with what we know about it. So that precludes Hobbits flying unassisted and the use of magical powers by any but a select few. But anything which naturally occurs in our world - termites, giraffes, sea-lions and the like – and is not inconsistent with what we know about M-e, should surely be open for inclusion. And that, in my view, includes same-sex relationships and Dwarf-Hobbit marriages (the latter, of course, being subject to there being credible reasons for such a marriage to occur).

I would add that I am far from being a liberal of any description, although I am somewhat of a libertarian.

Originally Posted by davem

... leaving aside one's natural inclination to want to hunt down & throw big sharp rocks at anyone who presents themselves to the world as a 'sex-in-games expert'

I could not agree more. What a preposterous job description ...!