[alatar]

Originally Posted by Raynor

I am not sure that I follow, perhaps you can rephrase.

Have no clue where my copy of the Sil is, and so this will be from memory - help me out, those with the book. Anyway, why were the elves brought West? Was this to afford the Valar with some playmates? Wasn't it also so that nothing would snatch the elves away in the dark (to make orcs)?

"Come to Aman, where it's always light and bright and no evil walks!"

Evil did exist in Aman, though bound in chains. Elves were slain as a results, first by Melkor, which one could argue had already happened in the East, but then by each other, which was the greater evil. Would elves have gotten a taste for each other's blood had they never taken the road West? How would they have turned out had they not heeded the Call?

And Manwe is guilty of false advertising, as night did fall in Aman.

Well, that can't work in Arda. Aman is common knowledge at least among the Eldar, who were in close contact with the numenoreans. The numenoreans themselves came into contact with the inhabitants of Aman during the war of wrath, and afterwards (with Eonwe) when they settled.

Agreed. However, you and I may have limits, but what of Eru's avatar? Wasn't a better solution available? My thought was to allow Men to walk onto Aman. After enough of their bodies piled up on the beach (in stasis?), eventually those on the ships would get the point. Surely, memories would fade, and every few hundred years the experiment would be repeated, but methinks in time everyone would lose interest from the monotony.

The fading of the role of the valar is something gradual; before the ages of the trees or of the sun, there were ages uncounted. While the Silmarillion is not extremely explicit, previous version of HoME detail his role in actively fighting and defeating Melkor.

But in this version we don't see him slugging it out with Melkor. Also, when Men violate the Ban, it states that he lays down his authority and lets Eru deal with it. Couldn't we have read that Manwe pleads to Eru, who then allows the Land of the Star to be swallowed by the sea via Ulmo/Manwe?

True, but he represents violence (albeit the good of it, cf HoME X).

Chopping off someone's arm for a good laugh is orc work; chopping off someone's arm when no other way is available to keep them from stabbing my child is not.