Originally Posted by Thenamir

Neithan, I'm unsure at this point whether you are a troll, a madman, or a thinker (of sorts), so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt at this point and attempt to see through the blinders you seem to think we're all wearing.

It is oft said that disasters bring out the best in people, or that without the contrast of the hard times we would never properly appreciate the good times, or that "every dark cloud has a silver lining". In this sense I can understand that, as Tolkien himself said, there would never have been certain beauties (as of snow) unless Melkor had brought the icy cold.

However, it is on one side of the line that one can assert that Eru can make make even the selfish evil of Morgoth work to his purposes, but let us not take the step over the line to assert that Melkor himself is good, or that evil in and of itself is good, thus confusing the two and removing all meaning from the words. The destruction and death that resulted from World War II can make us grateful for the life we have and the peace we enjoy, but let us not call Hitler, Mussolini, and Hirohito great men of history because of that reminder -- the price paid was far too high.

If good can be brought out as a result of evil, that does not justify the evil. The fact that Eru foresaw and incorporated all of the things that I quoted in my prior post, and eventually caused a the strength of evil to be overcome by the weakness of good, that is a testament not to the glory of Melkor for being a "free thinker", but to Eru, for taking Morgoth's free but twisted will and still making something good from it. Eru is therefore not a tyrant, as you claimed, but the true benevolent creator and savior of all.

You have said that the Valar are only puppets, aping what Eru "progammed" into them. Where Tolkien said that Iluvatar gave only a theme, a "subject" or "Guideline" from which they could use their individual gifts and talents to create the Music themselves:

You have said that the Flame Imperishable is greater than Eru. Tolkien says the Fire itself is with Iluvatar and inseparable from him. He would have found what he was seeking if he had but turned TO Iluvatar rather than AWAY from him.

Of Sauron you say "they lie who say that He is a Tyrant wreathed in shadow." I do believe it was our beloved professor T. who wrote that of Sauron -- and I thought you despised those who altered his works and his vision.

You have said that Morgoth "hath made valleys, and Eru's slaves filled them; Melkor hath made mountains, and Eru hath cast them down", which is the very opposite of Tolkien's writing on that topic:

Finally, and I think perhaps this is a telling point, you ask "What would the world be without Melkor's Theme?" First of all, there was no "Melkor's Theme", only But more to the point, if there had been no Melkor, theme or no theme, then we would all go on living our lives in the REAL world. For Melkor is a fiction, a non-entity, words on a page (albeit words of genius) composed by a man we all revere, but who in the last analysis, deplored the cult status his words attained. Let us never forget that.

I have not yet made up my mind whether you have some method to your madness, or if you're just one of those folks who wander in to a forum or chat spoiling for a fight, pushing everyone's hot buttons, and watching their predictable knee-jerk reactions. Or perhaps you just quaff too many pints, or there's something "special" in those ciggies you smoke, or perhaps that fried chicken is just a wee bit past its freshness date. Nevertheless, I perceive that there is some valuable intelligence behind this belligerent facade, and I hope that it can spill forth here with less rancor and more gentleness, less veiled vagueries and more directness.

I'm off to bed. I bid you and all my readers a good night.