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Sophia the Thunder Mistress · 08-12-2003, 10:10 PM

Blue Istari- "Gandalf" does indeed mean "Wand elf" but that is a name in a Mannish language, not in elvish (as the elves were pretty good at recognizing their own kind [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]).

Also Elrond was never at the Ford of Bruinen, you are thinking of Glorfindel.

It is probably safe to say that Gandalf could have been mistaken for an elf (by someone who was unfamiliar with the elves... his name would indicate that such a mistake had occured at some point), but just because someone thought he might be one is no reason to assume he is. The Istari, Gandalf included, were quite clearly Maiar.

Morgoth the Great- The Maiar were not elves. The Maiar are the lesser division of the Ainur. The race of the Ainur (angelic beings) had two major divisions, the Valar and the Maiar. They are the same kind of being, basically, the only difference being that the Valar are mightier than the Maiar.

As relatives (so to speak) of the Valar, the Maiar are their helpers and Servants, and most live with them in Valinor.

I think you are a little confused as to the role of the Grey Havens in Tolkien. The Grey Havens is not the final destination of the elves who go westward. The Grey Havens is simply a city (Mithlond) on the West coast of Middle Earth where the Elves have a shipyard. The ships that leave from the Grey Havens are destined for the Undying Lands, which is where Valinor is. Valinor is the home of the Valar (and most of the Maiar).

So when they say that an elf went to the Grey Havens, it means that they sailed over the sea to Valinor, not that they stopped in Mithlond for an extended visit [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]. The Maiar came from the Grey Havens in the sense that they came over the sea from Valinor. The Grey Havens is sort of like a Middle Earth Airport, you have to go there before you make an important trip, but it is not your destination.

So, the elves and the Maiar started on different sides of the ocean (originally), the Elves on Middle Earth and the Maiar in Valinor. They were certainly not the same race.

I hope this has cleared things up a little bit.

Sophia

[ August 13, 2003: Message edited by: Sophia the Thunder Mistress ]

08-12-2003, 10:10 PM	#19
Sophia the Thunder Mistress Scent of Simbelmynë Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Aboard Highwind, bound for Traverse Town Posts: 1,780	Blue Istari- "Gandalf" does indeed mean "Wand elf" but that is a name in a Mannish language, not in elvish (as the elves were pretty good at recognizing their own kind [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]). Also Elrond was never at the Ford of Bruinen, you are thinking of Glorfindel. It is probably safe to say that Gandalf could have been mistaken for an elf (by someone who was unfamiliar with the elves... his name would indicate that such a mistake had occured at some point), but just because someone thought he might be one is no reason to assume he is. The Istari, Gandalf included, were quite clearly Maiar. Morgoth the Great- The Maiar were not elves. The Maiar are the lesser division of the Ainur. The race of the Ainur (angelic beings) had two major divisions, the Valar and the Maiar. They are the same kind of being, basically, the only difference being that the Valar are mightier than the Maiar. As relatives (so to speak) of the Valar, the Maiar are their helpers and Servants, and most live with them in Valinor. I think you are a little confused as to the role of the Grey Havens in Tolkien. The Grey Havens is not the final destination of the elves who go westward. The Grey Havens is simply a city (Mithlond) on the West coast of Middle Earth where the Elves have a shipyard. The ships that leave from the Grey Havens are destined for the Undying Lands, which is where Valinor is. Valinor is the home of the Valar (and most of the Maiar). So when they say that an elf went to the Grey Havens, it means that they sailed over the sea to Valinor, not that they stopped in Mithlond for an extended visit [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]. The Maiar came from the Grey Havens in the sense that they came over the sea from Valinor. The Grey Havens is sort of like a Middle Earth Airport, you have to go there before you make an important trip, but it is not your destination. So, the elves and the Maiar started on different sides of the ocean (originally), the Elves on Middle Earth and the Maiar in Valinor. They were certainly not the same race. I hope this has cleared things up a little bit. Sophia [ August 13, 2003: Message edited by: Sophia the Thunder Mistress ] __________________ The seasons fall like silver swords, the years rush ever onward; and soon I sail, to leave this world, these lands where I have wander'd. O Elbereth! O Queen who dwells beyond the Western Seas, spare me yet a little time 'ere white ships come for me!