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Originally Posted by Formendacil
Yes, I imagine you could come up with quotes... you are certainly this website's quote-master.
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Since I take this as a compliment, thanks!
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But much as "Studies show..." can be used to promote any position in the book, quotes can back up just about any position one wants to take on any subject.
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My opinion is that Tolkien uses far less equivocal terms than you imply.
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Originally Posted by davem
one may see them as wrong but enjoy what they get up to
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I believe this is our middle ground.
I will go further than that; I was talking a few years back to my teacher of peace studies, and he mentioned that there exists yin and yang in every situation, so I asked him about yang in SS soldiers. He mentioned discipline and, IIRC, comradery and courage. These are points I concede. Enemies, whether real or imaginary, may display (moral) qualities which we already agree with, and recognising them in these persons is not in itself something immoral. But, as you say in this particular instance, this does not amount to agreeing with their immorality.
One could look at a great master's painting depicting a battle. One may admire heroism, sacrifice, or deplore the stupidity of dying for the economical or dogmatic interest of others (if somehow this was the historical motive, which it usually was). However, if one was to delight in all the wounds and harm, if one was to be derriving some sadistic pleasure from this, then,
if it fits my previous argument about moral values, it would be cultivating immorality.
Regarding enjoying imaginary humorous situations, I don't see any moral contradiction in that, as long as the person in question, if it has the moral values I mentioned, delights only in the genuine hilarity and derrives zero pleasures from infliction of harm. Also, I don't believe such a person would put oneself in moral contradiction with oneself if he somehow involuntarily laughed at a particulary hilarious (in itself) element in a real life dramatic event, as long as there was no siding with any values he himself considers immoral.
Many persons view cartoons as particulary violent and don't watch Tom and Jerry for that reason, despite what might amount to some exoneration of humour in both real and imaginary situations. I know many persons, westerners included, who share these feelings. The "whole/package deal" is not worth it for some.