[The Saucepan Man]

Just an observation, but I hope that it might take the sting out of this thread. It looks to me like there is a certain amount of talking at cross-purposes going on here.

As far as I can see, no one arguing that delighting in evil is immoral has sought to suggest that any member of the Barrow Downs is immoral. Nor, as I see it, have they sought to imply as much by suggesting that having a light-hearted “crush” on Wormtongue or building a replica of Angband, or any other such weird and wonderful things that a Downer might do, is immoral. Their case, as I understand it, is that those who take a delight in the deeds of Tolkien’s evil characters, who genuinely find their intent and purpose, as depicted by Tolkien, laudable, is an approach lacking in morality. That, it seems to me, is a proposition which may be discussed without anyone taking offence, save for those falling within that category. And I seriously doubt that anyone who would wish to spend any significant amount of time on the Downs would fall within that category.

Similarly, I do not understand those who are arguing that it is justifiable to find the evil characters interesting, or to have a bit of fun with them (for example, to dress up as the Witch King or write an evil character in an RPG), to be seeking to suggest that the deeds and purposes of those characters, as depicted by Tolkien, are morally acceptable. Their case, as I understand it, is that academic, literary or merely light-hearted interest in the evil characters does not denote sociopathy or immorality.

If my understanding of both positions is correct, then it seems to me that they are largely, if not wholly, reconcilable, and I am really not sure what this argument has been about at all. I would therefore counsel taking the diversion offered up by Bêthberry, rather than continuing it.