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Old 03-04-2007, 12:55 PM   #355
obloquy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raynor
While I admit this possibility, I also consider it is mainly their evil deeds which consume/ diminish their power.
You're partly right. It's actually not just evil deeds, but any activities reserved for Incarnates. While these activities are not evil for Ainur, they still may be argued to represent a corruption of their original forms.

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I believe the passage in question is this:
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In my interpretation, that the destruction Arda would be a result of war, not of the destruction of Melkor in itself.
Yes. But the paragraph continues:
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Moreover, the final eradication of Sauron (as a power directing evil) was achievable by the destruction of the Ring. No such eradication of Morgoth was possible, since this required the complete disintegration of the 'matter' of Arda.
I admit that Tolkien never fully explored this, but the important thing is that he's indicating a parallel between Sauron and his Ring, and Morgoth and Arda. In Sauron's case, Tolkien says that he could never be wholly defeated in direct combat since his Ring would forever anchor him and provide a way to regenerate. Similarly, Morgoth could never be totally destroyed while his "ring" existed. Tolkien entertained the possibility that someone might break Sauron's will and claim his power as his own, but it seems improbable that the same could be done with Morgoth's power, regardless of how much Morgoth himself had ultimately dwindled.

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I would speculate that his corruption was in direct connection with his part in the Ainulindale:
I'm not quite sure what you mean. The vision was here removed from them by Iluvatar. The Darkness may not represent Melkor at all, but something different, because we notice that the Ainur had known darkness before in thought. Darkness is also not always badness. If I remember correctly, there's a passage somewhere about Sauron (I believe) perverting the darkness of Mirkwood to a thing of fear. Forgive me for having no clue where it might be: I no longer have searchable texts on my computer. The Darkness seen by the Ainur could merely be a vision of the unknown, that which has not yet been unfolded and "illuminated."

Then again, it may also represent Melkor's later evil, but even then it was only a hint of it. In any case, it does not represent his hand in the formation of Arda itself.

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There is an interesting note in Myths Transformed concerning Sauron and Melkor's corruption :
although I agree it hinges on whether corruption is a power to be used or a state of facts.
In fact, Tolkien gives us even more help on the issue going so far as to tell us that
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It was this Morgoth-element in matter, indeed, which was a prerequisite for such 'magic' and other evils as Sauron practised with it and upon it.
And still I would argue that this portion of Melkor in everything was not necessarily a thing of evil, though it resulted in a corruption of all things. Nature is not entirely harmonious, but neither is it evil. It can be cruel, but it is still not evil; it can even be unjust, but we do not expect it to be judged for it. This coincides with Melkor's original station in Arda, in which he was answerable only to Iluvatar, and though Iluvatar rebuked him, he did not condemn him as evil. Melkor's song was discordant, like nature, but it still found its "uttermost source" in Iluvatar. Though later, "once Melkor incarnates himself and begins to break the moral laws of the Incarnates, he is no longer above those laws and is then subject to condemnation." (Quote is mine, from another thread in The Books.)

We do occasionally run into a problem when we try to take everything Tolkien wrote and make it work together. The essays in which he correlates Arda to The Ring seems to be at odds with the one that tells us that Morgoth was executed, and maybe it does represent a shift in Tolkien's thoughts. Still, I think they can be reconciled, which was my intent in my previous post.

I wonder if a mod would be so good as to move these last couple posts into a new thread in The Books forum?
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