[Raynor]

Originally Posted by davem

But he is not an active participant in the world - he is not an actor within time - he does not do anything in the world until Numenor

I don't see what is the problem with Eru not being wholly in Ea. Also, one might deduct from your statement that he was present in the world when Numenor when it was destroyed, which is false.

Originally Posted by davem

One cannot simply state 'Eru is beyond human value judgements because he is so much greater than Man

Then again, Tolkien refrained from judging the ultimate damnability of Gollum, since that would inquire into 'Goddes privitee', a concept he clearly respected. If this can be applied to a mere hobbit, all the more to Eru. Then again, you are free to feel otherwise.

Originally Posted by davem

so are the Valar, & no-one feels it is wrong to judge their actions

Yet Tolkien warned against finding faults and assigning guilts to Manwe, because he was the spirit of highest wisdom and prudence in Arda, with direct recourse to Eru, with the highest knowledge of the Music.

Originally Posted by davem

Tolkien is the most ready of any of us to do that very thing.

I wouldn't be so sure .

Originally Posted by davem

Melkor is also much greater than Man & his actions & motives could equally be characterised as beyond our understanding

I for one don't find his actions surprising or unexplainable, at least in the context of this work.

Originally Posted by davem

No - their origin was in the Music. They may not have come into physical being until after the creation, but they existed in the mind of Eru from before the creation.

I am afraid you are seriously downplaying Eru's continous role and participation into Arda, as the continuous source of human life. In time, the mortal Men will be the only sentient, embodied creatures to rule Arda.

Originally Posted by davem

According to Elvish tradition as set out by Finrod - can we accept this as a 'fact' within the mythology or is it simply speculation?

I don't find it hard to believe that an untainted being can enjoy correctly the gifts of divinity.

Originally Posted by davem

Only in the beginning. Its clear that by the time of his fall he was far from superior.

By the time of his fall? He was able to fight off all the valar, and he would have probably obtained decissive victories were it not for the coming of Tulkas. His overwhelming power was even more underscored by Tolkien in Myths Transformed.

Originally Posted by davem

And once again, it is Tolkien's choice that the 'only way' for Eru to deal with this problem is Eru's incarnation - the introduction of such a 'fatal flaw' requires some serious justification - why paint himself into a corner where the 'only' solution is something he disapproves so strongly of?

He himself considered parodying Christianity as almost inevitable. He also reffered to the Redemption of Man (although far in the future) in the Letters, which, to me, is also a sign of a more direct manifestation of God.

Originally Posted by davem

No, the corruption (potential at least & arguably (argued by Tolkien himself btw) here inevitable came in with the dissonance introduced by Melkor & Eru's choice to create a world with such an 'inevitability' inherent.

What I meant was (and you apparently agree by the use of potential) that the inhabitants of Arda knew it at one time as unmarred - or at least when its physical marring didn't started.

Originally Posted by davem

Men are born into a world which is by its nature & in its creation, corrupt.

Originally Posted by Atrabeth

'Matter' is not regarded as evil or opposed to 'Spirit'. Matter was wholly good in origin. It remained a 'creature of Eru' and still largely good, and indeed self-healing, when not interfered with: that is, when the latent evil intruded by Melkor was not deliberately roused and used by evil minds.

Originally Posted by Myths Transformed

...the foundations of this world are good, and it turns by nature to good, healing itself from within by the power that was set there in its making; and evil in Arda would fail and pass away if it were not renewed from without: that is: that comes from wills and being [sic] that are other than Arda itself.

They also come into a world that is good at its foundations, which heals itself from within, for it has the imperishable flame at its heart; it is also a world where knowledge and worship of Eru would be reinstated after Aragorn; a world where "He will not suffer Himself to be deprived of His own, not by any Enemy, not even by ourselves. ".

We're still dealing with the Eru we are presented with in the story - not the opinions of various characters - or statements about him by Tolkien -

If you chose to ignore the foremost sources of information, insight and wisdom in this world, from inside and outside, if they contradict your position, then I would say the value of your opinion is questionable.