[Sir Kohran]

Originally Posted by alatar

I don't see the similarities that you do, but that's just me. Is there anything in "The Last Debate" that may have inspired Aragorn's movie speech?

I went over the top with my passionate little speech, but I was doing science coursework at the time and I needed to clear my head somewhere. But I still stand by my original point - I think it could have worked fine in the book.

Anyhow, I think that Aragorn's speech was inspired by lots of things throughout the story.

Originally Posted by alatar

Thanks. That would explain how we 'won' in 1776 though General Washington's army lost many a battle..you were just making it look good until you could get safely across the Atlantic. "Maybe they won't realize that we left them holding the bag until it's too late..."

It's a little-known fact that the United States was actually planned and created by the government as a backup plan - if Britain was ever in serious danger of being invaded, there would be a strong reserve force. We actually allowed the Americans to win through warfare, as that would make them into a strong and passionate country that would quickly turn the tide in any war Britain was finding hard.

Originally Posted by Essex

But really, Independance Day is so corny, - especially the bill pullman speech mentioned above - I watched the movie in America whilst on holiday there and when everyone else was cheering, me and the missus were rolling up with laughter!

LOL - I know exactly what you mean. I was on holiday in America too, and The Patriot (another anglophobic film by Mel Gibson) was playing and the people at this party were all squealing with delight. I just rolled my eyes and laughed.

Originally Posted by alatar

Okay, to each his own. Did Aragorn's speech make you feel as you (I assume) felt when the Rohirrim showed up on the Pelennor? I wasn't as fired up.

Perhaps, in different ways...Aragorn's is a message of hope whilst Theoden's is a message of destruction.

Originally Posted by alatar

Note that watching "Independence Day" at 3 AM tends to cloud my rationality.

Frankly, I think watching Independence Day at any time would cloud one's rationality...of course, aliens from another galaxy would just happen to use computer systems and a common virus could be quickly uploaded and used without any problems whatsoever...

Originally Posted by alatar

Hmm...these movies, created to sell toys and reap profit, are primarily targeted to an American audience. Though some films do better in foreign distribution than in the domestic market, it's not typical. So, for the Americans, the good guys and heroes, for the most part, would be us. Think that James Bond is an exception.

I can't understand why studios think films all about America will always sell better - look at the three bestselling movies of all time: Titanic, The Lord Of The Rings: The Return Of The King and Pirates Of The Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest. The first was set on a British ship, the heroine was British and some of the other actors were also British. The second was based on a book written by an Englishman, again much of the cast was British, and generally most of the 'style' - writing and production - was European in nature. The third yet again had quite a few British actors and pretty much all the characters themselves seemed 'British' (listen to the accents and the phrases they use - 'bloody', 'bugger', 'innit', etc.). So in short, I don't think the rest of the world needs to be obsolete for a movie to succeed.

Originally Posted by alatar

And, not to insult anyone's origin, but I think that many here aren't really sure that there's a real world beyond our shores.

I knew a woman from Italy who went on holiday to America and was seriously asked if she had driven there...

Originally Posted by alatar

Much agreed. Think that humanity still has 'tribal genes' and it's going to take some time before we leave them behind. Also, many peoples cannot think 'long term' as I'm not sure that we're wired for it. Anyway, another favorite in this theme is V where aliens set up a Nazi-like totalitarian state in the USoA (and around the world). Of course it's 'us' that kicks the aliens back into space, naturally...

Yes, a bit of global unity would do us all some good...

Originally Posted by alatar

We could have spent more time with him; the moment could have played out longer.

I agree, though timing and pace is always an issue - the audience doesn't want to spend time watching an ugly fellow banter back and forth with the heroes when there's a battle on the way...

Originally Posted by alatar

Here we go! So what you're saying is that the lies of the MoS were effective, and Aragorn the Barbarian couldn't counter them with steel words. Nor, I guess, could Gandalf, armed with Narya. Wasn't it you that said that during the siege of Minas Tirith that the soldiers near Gandalf weren't as affected by the Nazgul as were those not so close? Did Gandalf lose everything when he lost his staff to the Witch-King? Can he no longer inspire hope? Aragorn, in Seq22 seems to have lost his hope as well, and so methinks that the returned King was just adding to, dare I say, his head count.

I agree completely. This could have been the perfect moment to show Aragorn as a leader - he could stand tall and make the Mouth cower in fear. But oh no, we had to have some primitive bloodshed instead...

Originally Posted by alatar

Why not a battle between the MoS and Aragorn?

That's a good idea - as the Mouth mocks Aragorn, he quietly draws a dagger and then strikes but Aragorn reacts quicker and kills him. I think that would have worked far better.