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Old 01-19-2007, 09:22 PM   #93
littlemanpoet
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: The Edge of Faerie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lal
The point though is that Eru is beyond good/evil, he is at once both of them, and he creates the circumstances in which both enter the world.
If this were true, then Eru has no basis by which to condemn Morgoth to the Void, except pure whim. This does violence to the inner consistency of reality Tolkien built into his cosmos/mythos, and therefore cannot be accurate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legate
We all know the story of Ainulindalë, and what Eru said to Melkor. When Eru put the plans of the Great Music before {the} Valar, there was nothing of what Melkor later did. In the beginning, there was nothing evil: not even Sauron, as it was said here many times.
Precisely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lal
Legate - bear in mind though that Eru created Melkor. When Eru tells him "no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me" he is telling Melkor that he may have free will, but he was put there by Eru and Eru made him what he is, whether for good or for bad. ... I suppose in one way you might almost feel sorry for Melkor as he simply cannot help what he is.
Such determinism is not reflected in the text. Melkor had choices and made wrong ones. Eru created him to have the greatest potential of all, and Melkor fell to pride and lust for dominion outside the will of Eru. On what account, then, would one feel sorry for Melkor?
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