[Mänwe]

“For [Isildur] forsook the South Kingdom for her purposed to take up his father's realm in Eriador” – (Silmarillion, Of The Rings of Power and the Third Age)

Boromir88 sows the first seed of doubt to the legitimacy of Aragorn’s claim to the thrown of Gondor. And rightly concludes that one side, those of the Southern line believe that Isuldur did indeed “forsake” his rulership, while the Northern line believes he did not.

Though to me it at first appears a matter of “interpretation”, to all intent and purposes Isuldur “granted” rulership to the son of Anárion while he took rulership of the north. He did not himself state that he was ‘renouncing’ his claim to rulership of the South. For as has been said he was the oldest son of Elendil and rightly King to all Númenorean lands.

Originally posted by Formendacil

“Gondor was founded by both Isildur and Anarion. Ergo, their descendents should each have been able to claim it's kingship. By rights, Gondor should have had two kings.”

Therefore I cannot agree with what you say here Formendacil.

“…and after the days of Pelendur the Stewardship became hereditary as a kingship, from father to son or nearest kin.” – (Appendix A, The Stewards)

Kingship was ever passed to the eldest, by their own laws there would only ever be one ruling King of all the land. Regardless of how many founded it, as the eldest, responsibility would be Isuldur’s. Therefore I am in complete agreement with Boromir88 that Isuldur did not mean to split the Kingdom’s.

Boromir88, I think that his death at the hands of the orcs served only to hasten their splitting, the matter of passing rulership over to Anárion’s son was not cleared up. And with no one else attempting to make sence of what he had meant, it became “normal” for the arrangement to continue.

Another question we should ask ourselves was why did no-one else from the Northern line attempt to claim rulership over Gondor being descendants of the eldest son?

Arvedui’s was the first to do so, it would seem logical that his case was strengthened by the demise of Ondoher and his son’s, also with the added fact that he was wed to the only direct descendant of Ondoher, Fíriel, his daughter.

'On the death of Ondoher and his sons, Arvedui of the North-kingdom claimed the crown of Gondor, as the direct descendant of Isildur, and as the husband of Fíriel, only surviving child of Ondoher.” – (Appendix A, Gondor and the Heirs of Anárion.)

For surely Fíriel under Númenorean law become Queen? The claim was rejected with the following reason which has been quoted already;

"'The Council of Gondor answered: "The crown and royalty of Gondor belongs solely to the heirs of Meneldil, son of Anárion, to whom Isildur relinquished this realm. In Gondor this heritage is reckoned through the sons only; and we have not heard that the law is otherwise in Arnor." – (Appendix A, Gondor and the Heirs of Anárion.)

To which Arvedui cunningly replies;

"Moreover, in Númenor of old the sceptre descended to the eldest child of the king, whether man or woman. It is true that the law has not been observed in the lands of exile ever troubled by war; but such was the law of our people, to which we now refer, seeing that the sons of Ondoher died childless." - (Notes, Appendix A, Gondor and the Heirs of Anárion.)

Ingenious, he should have the Council up against the wall now. The note refers to the following;

“That law was made in Númenor (as we have learned from the King) when Tar-Aldarion, the sixth king, left only one child, a daughter. She became the first Ruling Queen, Tar-Ancalimë” – (Notes, Appendix A, Gondor and the Heirs of Anárion.)

So her being crowned Queen would have meant he was King. And so I am in full support with Formendacil that Arvedui’s claim was;

Oringinally posted by Formendacil

“…perfectly correct under the Numenorean laws of succession. And after the termination of the Line of Anarion, they had a right to return to the direct Kingship of both kingdom- a right they had never clearly forfeited in the first place.”

The only “loophole” the Council had I believe was their interpretation of Isuldur’s command; though the line was not completely terminated, genetically speaking we still have Fíriel and her sons, albeit they are now under their father’s lineage.

And so to conclude I personally believe the Council were wrong to deny Arvedui, despite the slim legitimacy of Eärnil.

Originally posted by Formendacil

“It was, perhaps, permissible for Pelendur and the Council to put forward Earnil as the Heir of Anarion”

“The crown was claimed by Eärnil, the victorious captain; and it was granted to him with the approval of all the Dúnedain in Gondor, since he was of the royal house. He was the son of Siriondil, son of Calimmacil, son of Arciryas brother of Narmacil II.” – (Appendix A, Gondor and the Heirs of Anárion.)

So he has lineage to put forward,

“'He sent messages to Arvedui announcing that he received the crown of Gondor, according to the laws and the needs of the South-kingdom,…” - (Appendix A, Gondor and the Heirs of Anárion.)

The “needs of the South-kingdom”, perhaps this is where we might suggest a hint of foul play. Though at this time there was hardly any “peace” to speak of, and Eärnil was certainly a most capable commander; “Victorious captain” referring to his victories at the crossing of the Poros and in Ithilien. And at the death of Eärnil’s son came the end of the Kings of the Southern Line.

I would also like to highlight the point that Eonwe made;

Originally quoted by Eonwe

“…it says in the appendix that Arvedui didn't have the strength of arms and the strength of will to oppose the Council.”

Reading the relevant part of the Appendix there is a strong flavour for the “trouble” that the Northern kingdom was in. Gondor it may be said was at its peak of military power as Eonwe beautifully states.

“So great in draught and so many were his ships that they could scarcely find harbourage, though both the Harlond and the Forlond also were filled; and from them descended an army of power, with munition and provision for a war of great kings. Or so it seemed to the people of the North, though this was but a small sending-force of the whole might of Gondor.” - (Appendix A, Gondor and the Heirs of Anárion.)

Perhaps their “power” in refusing Arvedui was their military power.

And so to Aragorn’s claim; Boromir88 you say that you feel that the difference between the basis of the claims, that being descendant of Isuldur or Elendil was a major difference, how so? I myself tend to lean toward the fact that the Southern Line had no King as the greater difference. It was ruled by stewards whose oath it was to return the Kingdom to the returned king.

“Each new Steward indeed took office with the oath 'to hold rod and rule in the name of the king, until he shall return.' But these soon became words of ritual little heeded, for the Stewards exercised all the power of the kings. Yet many in Gondor still believed that a king would indeed return in some time to come; and some remembered the ancient line of the North, which it was rumoured still lived on in the shadows. But against such thoughts the Ruling Stewards hardened their hearts.” – (Appendix A, The Stewards) [my bold]

Therefore I can see exactly why Faramir gave up his office, there was no one in the Kingdom with a closer lineage with Elendil than Aragorn, thus rightly King, and very legitimate.