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Macalaure · 12-19-2006, 01:38 PM

I think there's an important difference between the Mouth of Sauron and a Ringwraith. The Mouth of Sauron was cunning by himself and later learned great sorcery and knew much of the mind of Sauron. So, though he learned from Sauron, he built up his power on his own. He still was a regular human with a supposedly independant will.
The Nazgûl on the other hand received their power from Sauron without any effort of their own. Sure they were chosen by Sauron based upon their ranks and powers and knowledges when they still were common men, but everything beyond that came directly from Sauron via the nine Rings or via the 'added demonic force' of the Witch-King during the War of the Rings. Apart from their original abilities, all of their powers are put into them by their Master and no other powers they possessed.
I think the Mouth of Sauron was more than a keeper of the household and a messenger. Why should Sauron teach him sorcery and even of his own thoughts in that case? It would be unnecessary. Being a human, and a cunning one, his counsel must have had some value to the Dark Lord. The Ringwraiths' wills are enslaved and their counsel therefore useless.

Both the Mouth of Sauron and the Witch-King have their areas of competence and their individual values to Sauron. It's probably impossible to tell which of the two is actually higher in rank or 'overall' power. I can't really imagine the WK taking orders from the MoS (unless they came from Sauron) or the other way around.

12-19-2006, 01:38 PM	#11
Macalaure Fading Fëanorion Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: into the flood again Posts: 2,911	I think there's an important difference between the Mouth of Sauron and a Ringwraith. The Mouth of Sauron was cunning by himself and later learned great sorcery and knew much of the mind of Sauron. So, though he learned from Sauron, he built up his power on his own. He still was a regular human with a supposedly independant will. The Nazgûl on the other hand received their power from Sauron without any effort of their own. Sure they were chosen by Sauron based upon their ranks and powers and knowledges when they still were common men, but everything beyond that came directly from Sauron via the nine Rings or via the 'added demonic force' of the Witch-King during the War of the Rings. Apart from their original abilities, all of their powers are put into them by their Master and no other powers they possessed. I think the Mouth of Sauron was more than a keeper of the household and a messenger. Why should Sauron teach him sorcery and even of his own thoughts in that case? It would be unnecessary. Being a human, and a cunning one, his counsel must have had some value to the Dark Lord. The Ringwraiths' wills are enslaved and their counsel therefore useless. Both the Mouth of Sauron and the Witch-King have their areas of competence and their individual values to Sauron. It's probably impossible to tell which of the two is actually higher in rank or 'overall' power. I can't really imagine the WK taking orders from the MoS (unless they came from Sauron) or the other way around.