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Originally Posted by Bęthberry
Perhaps [Tolkien] was happy to leave a story that allowed readers actively to come to an awareness of that presence or not, according to their own lights.
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Yes.
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Originally Posted by Bb
The worth of the tale lies not in the end 'meaning' but in the journey itself.
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Well, I don't know that I would say it in quite such a dogmatic 'not this but that' way.
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Originally Posted by Bb
oh, and, allegory and symbolism are not synonymous. One can exist without the other.
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Yes.
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Originally Posted by Child
I believe this is the thread you were intially referring to:
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Yes. I was unable to find it. I dare say that index needs work.
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Originally Posted by Child
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Originally Posted by a Tolkien Letter
One thing led to another and the gentlemen asked: "Of course, you don't suppose , do you, that you wrote all that book yourself?" Poor Gandalf! I was too well acquainted with G. to expose myself rashly, or to ask what he meant. I think I said, "No, I don't suppose so any longer. I have never been able to suppose so. An alarming conclusion for an old philologist to draw concerning his private amusement. But not one that should puff any one up who considers the imperfections of "chosen instruments" and indeed what sometimes seems their lamentable unfitness for the purpose..."
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after a lifetime of devotion to the Legendarium and less than two years before his death, Tolkien had come to believe that he had been chosen as an instrument by God to convey the story of Arda to those around him and that this story contained some profound religious truths that had an immediate impact on at least a few of his readers. Of the three options listed, I prefer this one. |
Yes. For Tolkien, a Catholic, to acknowledge himself as an instrument of God is not hubris, not arrogance; rather, deepest humility. Believers in the Judeo-Christian God who are honest about their beliefs recognize that God is the ultimate Author, and uses believers, and unbelievers as well, to forward God's purpose.
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Originally Posted by Lal
The Lord of the Rings is of course a fundamentally religious and Catholic work Tolkien claims it is a 'fundamentally' Catholic work. He does not mean it is a 'rules based' 'fundamental' work, he means at heart it's the work of a Catholic.
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fundamental:1a: serving as an original or generating source; 1b: serving as a basis supporting existence or determining essential structure or function.
There are other definitions that deal with change or science, or Religious Fundamentalism, but those are different things than what Tolkien is talking about. If Tolkien had meant that LotR is fundamentally the work of a Catholic, he would have stated it so. Instead he wrote that LotR is a fundamentally religious and Catholic work. Using the above, most general and (ahem) basic definition of the word, what Tolkien is thus saying (knowing how to use English correctly) is that Catholicism serves as an original or generating source; OR serves as a basis supporting LotR's existence OR determines LotR's essential structure or function. One of these three.
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Originally Posted by Lal
Here we're all at sea as we do not know if he sat there editing with Catholicism in mind, or if he means that he could see this after publication, or at which point in the whole process of writing. We just don't know. But he does tell us more later in the letter.
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I agree with Fordim and Helen that Tolkien is most likely talking about the pre-publication revision process.
However that is very clumsily put and sounds more self-important than I feel. For as a matter of fact, I have consciously planned very little
This is humility, and downright self-effacing. Which is not to say that he's being untruthful; rather, he's downplaying any implication or inference that he is some kind of genius master planner who could pull off this major "trick". Which actually falls in line with the quote Child reminded us of earlier.
Anyway, I hope to relate some more of what I've learned in regard to 1908 - 1963 Catholicism and how it compares to LotR, but it'll have to wait for another day.