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littlemanpoet · 10-13-2006, 10:04 PM

Thanks, Child.

Raynor, you make a good point since Gandalf is Tolkien's truth teller. This statement of Gandalf's about Bilbo "giving it up in the end of his own accord" is interesting, and serves as an excellent example (imho) of Tolkien's realistic combining of that ever present dilemma of human existence, the interplay between free will and providence. Both are real (again imho) and it is impossible to tease them apart from each other. Gandalf is speaking to one of the two realities at the point, and being Tolkien's truth teller, is uselessly gainsaid. However, read the narrative carefully and you will still see that Bilbo needed all the help Gandalf could provide to summon the will, or should I say, be given the strength of will, to resist the allure of the Ring.

Gandalf is also correct that he would break the mind of Bilbo or Frodo, for he is merely finite. But it is arguable that a more subtle Power may be at work here, that knows hobbits from their inner workings due to the fact of having invented them in the first place (and I mean this as a reference to Tolkien only in pun), which I choose to call providence; or perhaps it might best be called "chance, if chance you call it".

10-13-2006, 10:04 PM	#458
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	Thanks, Child. Raynor, you make a good point since Gandalf is Tolkien's truth teller. This statement of Gandalf's about Bilbo "giving it up in the end of his own accord" is interesting, and serves as an excellent example (imho) of Tolkien's realistic combining of that ever present dilemma of human existence, the interplay between free will and providence. Both are real (again imho) and it is impossible to tease them apart from each other. Gandalf is speaking to one of the two realities at the point, and being Tolkien's truth teller, is uselessly gainsaid. However, read the narrative carefully and you will still see that Bilbo needed all the help Gandalf could provide to summon the will, or should I say, be given the strength of will, to resist the allure of the Ring. Gandalf is also correct that he would break the mind of Bilbo or Frodo, for he is merely finite. But it is arguable that a more subtle Power may be at work here, that knows hobbits from their inner workings due to the fact of having invented them in the first place (and I mean this as a reference to Tolkien only in pun), which I choose to call providence; or perhaps it might best be called "chance, if chance you call it".