[Boromir88]

Raynor, you've sucked me in...

You will find no disagreement with me that the Nazgul were more deadly and powerful servants than the Mouth of Sauron, you quite clearly show this...but I disagree with this assumption:

I disagree; in Sauon's hierarchy, I believe that one's power is what defines one's status.

I disagree with this, because Sauron wasn't much of a leader or a fighter. As Denethor observes:

"Denethor laughed bitterly. 'Nay, not yet, Master Peregrin! He will not come save only to triumph over me when all is won. He uses others as his weapons. So do all great lords, if they are wise, Master Halfling."~The Siege of Gondor

Sauron wasn't the military commander type...in fact Sauron doesn't have a very good track record when it comes to him fighting in general. The two times he does engage in a battle he loses. As Denethor observes he much prefers to sit back, use others as his weapons, and take a back stage approach. So, I disagree with the assumption that being more powerful means you are higher-ranked in Sauron's hierarchy.

I think it has more to do with are you the person Sauron wants for the job. We know that unlike Morgoth, Sauron loved order and co-ordination...these virtues he had all the way until his end:

"He [Sauron] still had the relics of positive purposes, that descended from the good of the nature in which he began: it had been his virtue (and therefore also the cause of his fall, and of his relapse) that he loved order and co- ordination, and disliked all confusion and wasteful friction. (It was the apparent will and power of Melkor to effect his designs quickly and masterfully that had first attracted Sauron to him.)"~Morgoth's Ring; Myths Transformed

To Sauron it's not about how powerful one is, or how deadly one is, he is a lover of order and co-ordination. Which is why we are led to believe that the Mouth of Sauron will get Orthanc once Sauron finishes off these 'Men.'

'But they [Men] shall help to rebuild Isengard which they have wantonly destroyed, and that shall be Sauron's, and there his lieutenant shall dwell: not Saruman, but one more worthy of trust.'~The Black Gate Opens

As Grishnakh shows us ("Saruman is a fool: a dirty, treacherous fool; but the Eye is on him." The Uruk-hai), and here again with the Mouth, Sauron knew fully aware of what Saruman was up to. He knew Saruman was planning to betray him, but he wanted to get as much use out of him as possible, and so when this War is over, he boots Saruman and places someone he feels he can trust and who can do the job.

We know that the Mouth fits both of these qualifiers. He knew much of Sauron's mind and grew in Sauron's favour. Now the Ringwraiths were complete slaves to Sauron's will, so he could trust them too, but I think it's clear that the Mouth of Sauron can be just as much trusted as the Nazgul.

1. You mention The Mouth of Sauron had forgotten his name...this is to emphasize the fact that The Mouth had lost his true identity. As you point out, names were very important, and with a name, comes the identity you have the person you are. Well, people who have fallen completely to Sauron's dominion have no memory of their name.

Examples: The Nazgul are not named, the leader is given some titles...but none are his names. And it's also debateable as to whether Khamul was actually the name of one of the Nazgul, or whether that was just a title he was given. Anyway, point being, the Nazgul are all unnamed because they don't have an identity, they don't know their past life, they are complete slaves to Sauron's will.

Gollum, Gollum still has a bit of hope left for his redemption because he can remember his name, and Frodo brings this out. There was a small corner of Gollum's mind that still remained uncorrupted by the Ring, and this was the ability of Gollum to recognize his name...Smeagol, and at least have an identity of his past life. However, once Gollum's chance of redemption is gone, he is now completely Gollum, he has forgotten his true name.

Same here for the Mouth of Sauron, to emphasize that symbolism that he has lost his past history, his identity, he can no longer remember his name. Just like the Nazgul, he is completely under Sauron's domination. In fact, the Mouth is actually compared to looking like a Ringwraith, only as Manwe points out he was still a living man.

2. The Mouth of Sauron would be a person Sauron would want for the job. He's sent the Nazgul to occupy Dol Guldur before...we know he doesn't trust orcs (I mean who would)...Saruman doesn't even trust orcs, Merry and Pippin note that he had "Men guards." Sauron is able to trust Men more than orcs, especially I would think a Man that has forgotten his identity and in pretty much all ways besides the fact that he's living, he resembles a Nazgul.

Also, again the Mouth was more cruel than any orc (what does that tell us about his authoritative capability?) and he knew much of Sauron's mind...implying he had probably held council with Sauron on other occasions.

Now begs the question who is the higher-ranked...The Mouth of Sauron or The Witch-King.

Well the Witch-King commands Sauron's armies...so as far as militarily goes, he is probably at the top of the ladder.

But as far as policy, government runnings in Barad-dur, the Mouth of Sauron would be above in Rank compared to the Witch-King...because he is the Lieutenant of Barad-dur. He was going to take Saruman's place and run over Orthanc after Sauron finished with his war. And I can say this with certainty, because The Mouth knew much about Sauron (meaning he probably knew how Sauron felt about Saruman), and we also know that Sauron loved order and co-ordination. He would be able to rule more effectively his 'New World under his domain" with someone like the Mouth Ruling over Orthanc.

Again going back to the Mouth of Sauron as being Sauron's herald...Now I think that a lot of people really don't understand what a true herald was, as a herald simply wasn't a trumpeter or harbinger.

As noted before Elrond was Gil-galad's herald, and it was a position that had quite a bit of power along with a list of duties. The herald was an Officer of Arms, and his duties included both diplomatic and military affairs. Diplomatic in the regards that he would deliver messages from the King, he could make proclomations, he acted as an ambassador, as well as serving as the armorial expert on the Battlefield...meaning he was greatly involved with the armory and issued certain regimental colors, the coat-of-arms, recorder of genealogies...among other things. The herald (especially the herald of a King) was someone who was very high up in status as well as high up in the ranks. He really isn't anything like the modern day conception of someone who presides over tournaments and acts as a superintendant of ceremonies.

Basically, the Mouth was someone of importance when it came to policy, and the dealings of Barad-dur...where the Witch-King was Sauron's servant and commander on the battlefield. As far as positioning and ranking would go, it would make sense for Sauron to give his second-in-command the tower of Orthanc to rule over and run things...especially to someone like the Mouth of Sauron.

Who was able to grow in Sauron's favour.
Who would have provided better control and order to Sauron's 'new kingdom.'
Who was more cruel than any orc.
Who was his Lieutenant of Barad-dur...which to me suggests this is a higher position than the Commander of the army.

The Nazgul may have been more powerful than the Mouth of Sauron, but I don't think Sauron's hierarchy is based upon how powerful one is. It is about who can be the most effective in running, controlling, and co-ordination.