Originally posted by
Raynor
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This disregards the p.o.v. given in the letter #151:
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The following passage you have provided does not come within letter 151, I think you mean to say letter 155. However I disregard this passage to some extent because it was part of a draft that was not sent. Could we not say he reconsidered what he had written, why else would be not have sent it?
Originally posted by
Raynor
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The only difference I think therefore is this ‘latent’ distinction given, that ‘magia’ is white magic; used by “good”, and ‘goetia’ for evil purposes and thus used by “evil”.
I disagree again, they are both rather neutral both sides use both, same source:
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This is however again part of a letter that was not sent. That is extremely poor grounds to base an arguement upon. But I think the only other option would be to concede to your point. There is very limited material for us to go upon.
The reason I take my stance in the way I have, is because there is no actual 'published' evidence for what Tolkien thought, so as has been done I have fallen back upon modern definition, using a little of Tolkien's, this being the greek etymology of the word "goeteia". I apologise if I am being difficult.
Your first two quotes regarding references to 'religion' I am unsure on. Namely because I am unfamiliar with the words
'Lor' and
'Lawks' as elluding to anything religious. Could you elaborate on those for me?
Moving onto your first quote regarding Tolkien's insight, I completely misread what he was stating here when I used it as evidence against religion. Your bringing it to my attention the second time has alerted me to it. Thank you! I must concede.
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Originally posted by
Raynor
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Rising in title does not equal holding the highest rank after Sauron. In the Hunt for the ring, the nazguls are presente as "his mightiest servants", who "were by far the most powerful of his servants".
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I do not think I am saying that. He rose in favour, it was this that gave him the 'key' to obtaining the title of 'Mouth of Sauron'. Although on second thoughts the passage in the "Black Gate is Open", it does seem rather self proclaimed. Your thoughts? (Though I would go for the 'brain' over 'brawn' on most occasions, the Nazgul being the 'brawn'.) Certainly it was his ambition that made him the more powerful though? I therefore refer back to my section
B(ii).
Again I am sorry but I am unfamiliar with another term you have used, "wikie"?
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To coin a cricket phrase, again I must concede another 'soft wicket', in regards to your rebuke on 'machinery' being a surrogate and not subspecies.
And yes those two points regarding 'magic' of men, and the decline of 'magic' are a little contradictory, though really they should be kept as two seperate views. Besides what is a good piece of arguement if you do not attempt to trip yourself?