[narfforc]

That can also be reversed mark12_30, there are those who can see the bible and those who see paganism, what of those who see neither, those who see this as just a book, so now we have three view points. If Tolkien was alive today which of these view points would he be most likely to favour?. As I said in my last post #389, Tolkien states LotR is not an allegory, he dislikes allegory. The rules he himself sets down are written in his lifetime, and are published for all the world to read. So if LotR is not an allegory it is something else, it is neither wholly Christian nor wholly Pagan, it is a amalgam. Where the problem occurs is when one of either side of Christian/Pagan lobby claims a statement/symbol in the book as one of their own, this cannot and should not be done. Take pity for instance, it is arrogant to claim it only exists in one religion, that only one religion is fighting the good fight, or has understanding of it. When Tolkien states something in LotR, none know what he actually intended or was thinking at that time. I do not mind events in LotR being compared with events elswhere, in other books religious or fictional, I myself see similarity between the meetings of Elwe/Melian or Beren/Luthien and that of the meeting Alveric/Lirazel (The King of Elflands Daughter by Dunsany), yet I would not say Tolkien stole this from him, for this did not belong to Dunsany in the first place, the theme was old when he wrote it. Like I say the problem occurs when people claim things as their own, not everyone believes in religion and it doesn't make their viewpoint wrong, and just because you are devout in someway it doesn't make you right, it just makes you think you are, and I cannot say you are not.

I think the posts on this thread have become sometimes a battle of who is right or wrong, instead of examining the evidence, which has on some occasions been pretty thin. Maybe if posters used sentances like: In my view this may be compared to, instead of The Balrog is Satan, so that the other side could answer with: Yes maybe, and it is also, in my view comparable with Surt, then more of us would be happier bunnies.