Eagle of the Star
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sarmisegethuza
Posts: 1,058
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lalwendë
Who knew of it? Men in LotR didn't know of it, it's only in the Athrabeth, in this it's stated as a kind of tradition, not as a current 'faith', there's no hint that the Men in LotR knew of it. It's up to these Men to work out what's right and wrong for themselves; and indeed part of the 'mission' of the Istari is to guide them (but not push them) towards good choices.
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This is a loooooong quote from letter #156:
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But in a kind of Noachian situation the small party of the Faithful in Numenor, who had refused to take pan in the rebellion (though many of them had been sacrificed in the Temple by the Sauronians) escaped in Nine Ships under the leadership of Elendil and his sons, and established a kind of diminished memory of Numenor in Exile on the coasts of Middle-earth – inheriting the hatred of Sauron, the friendship of the Elves, the knowledge of the True God, and (less happily) the yearning for longevity, and the habit of embalming and the building of splendid tombs – their only 'hallows': or almost so. But the 'hallow' of God and the Mountain had perished, and there was no real substitute. Also when the 'Kings' came to an end there was no equivalent to a 'priesthood': the two being identical in Numenorean ideas. So while God (Eru) was a datum of good Numenorean philosophy, and a prime fact in their conception of history he had at the time of the War of the Ring no worship and no hallowed place. And that kind of negative truth was characteristic of the West, and all the area under Numenorean influence: the refusal to worship any 'creature', and above all no 'dark lord' or satanic demon, Sauron, or any other, was almost as far as they got. They had (I imagine) no petitionary prayers to God ; but preserved the vestige of thanksgiving. (Those under special Elvish influence might call on the angelic powers for help in immediate peril or fear of evil enemies. ) It later appears that there had been a 'hallow' on Mindolluin, only approachable by the King, where he had anciently offered thanks and praise on behalf of his people; but it had been forgotten. It was re-entered by Aragorn, and there he found a sapling of the White Tree, and replanted it in the Court of the Fountain. It is to be presumed that with the reemergence of the lineal priest kings (of whom Luthien the Blessed Elf-maiden was a foremother) the worship of God would be renewed, and His Name (or title) be again more often heard. But there would be no temple of the True God while Numenorean influence lasted.
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It does speak for itself, doesn't it?
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It took Eru long enough to do something about him when the Elves sought help - and then he has simply been chained in the void, not destroyed,
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Then again, "the indestructibility of spirits with free wills, even by the Creator of them, is also an inevitable feature, if one either believes in their existence, or feigns it in a story" (cf letter #211), so your alternative isn't appropiate.
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the serpent is not evil, the serpent simply suggests to Adam and Eve another way of doing things - the point about The Fall is surely that it is all Adam and Eve's choice
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The serpent was not evil? He "beguiled" Eve, inducing rebellion against God's words. And I think it is interesting to see his words:
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Originally Posted by Genesis 3:5
For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
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Since they are so similar to Sauron's:
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Originally Posted by Of the rings of power and the third age, Silmarillion
Alas, for the weakness of the great! For a mighty king is Gil-galad, and wise in all lore is Master Elrond, and yet they will not aid me in my labours. Can it be that they do not desire to see other lands become as blissful as their own? But wherefore should Middle-earth remain for ever desolate and dark, whereas the Elves could make it as fair as Eressea, nay even as Valinor? And since you have not returned thither, as you might, I perceive that you love this Middle-earth, as do I. Is it not then our task to labour together for its enrichment, and for the raising of all the Elven-kindreds that wander here untaught to the height of that power and knowledge which those have who are beyond the Sea?
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If the serpent was not evil, how come he was punished then?
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Originally Posted by Alatar
Anyway, the answer regarding the Hobbits, whether there was a Flood, or whether the flood was local or happened before the Shirefolk existed is that, I think, there's a mention that in Frodo's time some of the Hobbits began getting a little bigger.
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There is a quote, I can't remember the source, where Tolkien states that they will slowly diminish in numbers, getting very stressed with finding food and forgetting their lore. Rather depressing.
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