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Old 09-02-2006, 04:17 PM   #174
davem
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Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
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davem is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.davem is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
I can see that a book which is written by a Christian & which generally conforms to the Christian faith can be called a 'Christian' book. At the same time I think it is essentially a meaningless label if it is to be applied to a story which actually contains nothing specifically Christian at all & is only generally in conformity with the mood of the faith (as it is in conformity with many other faiths & with secular humanism to a great degree).

In what way (other than authorial hope - one can't even say authorial intention as most of it was not invented consciously at all) can it be said to be 'Christian'? Is any book which is generally in conformity with Christianity to be called a Christian book. or only books written by Christian authors?

So, lets put forward a 'supposal'. Suppose you read a book which is in conformity with Christianity & as far as you are aware it was written by a Christian. Is it a Christian book? If LotR is a Christian book due to its general conformity with Christian faith (despite absence of specific Christian symbols & themes) then you would have to say this book was also a Christian book, wouldn't you?

But what, after accepting it as a Christian book, you later found out the author was not actually a Christian? Would the book then cease to be a Christian book?

Or suppose we found letters from Tolkien denouncing Christianity & saying it was all nonsense & he'd been faking all along. Would LotR suddenly stop being a Christian book?

So, the question is, is there something specifically Christian about the story itself which would make it a Christian story whether or not its author was Christian?

As to Fea's question:

Quote:
Saruman has been labelled as a sort of a Judas figure within the story. This interests me. Who was Judas, who was Saruman, and what attributes do they share? Why has this connection been made?
It seems to me that there is no similarity at all, other than that both are traitors. If there is a Judas figure in LotR it is rather Boromir. Yet the similarity is extremely vague & there are few real similarities. I have no idea what (of value) one would learn by doing such a comparison, either about Saruman (or Boromir) or Judas.

(BTW, my point re 'Christian propaganda' was specifically in response to LMP's claim that Christianity had somehow produced Western civilisation all on its ownsome. I'm reminded of a radio programme I heard by some American evangelical who said he was so grateful to St Paul for spreading the Gospel, because his own ancestors were from Scotland & before the emergence of Christianity all the Scots were running around naked in the forests. He clearly believed that just two thousand years ago Europeans were grunting neanderthals eating raw meat (a la the start of Kubrick's 2001). In fact the Celts, as is well known, were a highly advanced society, well respected for their learning even as far as Greece & Rome.)

Last edited by davem; 09-02-2006 at 04:31 PM.
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