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Old 08-09-2006, 04:15 PM   #5
Boromir88
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Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.
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White Tree

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I would like to hear of more evidence to prove that the King of the Dead was as you say just a scare tactic figure, & not capable of causing harm to the WK, who himself is neither living nor dead.~Mansun
Sure thing,

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To be honest, it is not confirmed that the dead army was powerless. Gimil simply said that he didn't know if their blades would do harm anymore, but they inspired enough fear that they didn't need them.~1,000 Reader
It can be confirmed quite easily, not even looking at Gimli's words, because that would be 'hearsay.'

Let's look at the curse of Isildur:
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"Though shalt be the last king. And if the West prove mightier than thy Black Master, this curse I lay upon thee and thy folk: to rest never until your oath is fulfilled. For this war will last through the years uncounted, and you shall be summoned once again ere the end."~The Passing of the Grey Company
This curse was laid upon their spirits, their 'spirits' will never rest. And how do we know this? Because they are literally dead. In Letter 192, Tolkien says that in his fight with the Balrog 'Gandalf really died,' because all death is in Tolkien is the seperation of the spirit (or fea) from the body (hroa). So, their physical bodies were dead, decipated, non existant, it was their spirits that weren't able to rest until their oath was fulfilled.

And being the dead, spirits, shadows, shades, whatever you want to call them, they have no physical body. And having no physical body, means you can't physically effect or harm anyone, because this means they are intangible. As the Sauron quote that is provided in my first post shows. Also, to note that after Merry and Eowyn kill the Witch-King:
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'Witch King had been reduced to impotence'~Letter 246
After being killed he was reduced to impotence, meaning his body was dead and having no physical body, simply being a spirit, he would be 'impotent,' he couldn't harm anyone.

The whole point that I'm trying to make is being dead, a spirit, a shadow...whatever, means that you have no physical body, because in Tolkien death is the seperation of the spirit from the body. And having no physical body means you can't harm anything, or anyone physically. Eventhough if you could still visibly, and barely see the Dead Army, they were still spirits with no physical body.

The Witch-King is different from the Dead Army, he first off is invisible, without his black cloak, you wouldn't see him. But opposite of the King of the Dead, he still had a physical body, you just couldn't see it. He was still tangible, and could still physically harm anyone on Middle-earth, because he had a body. And we know he had a body, or he wouldn't have been killed on Pelennor fields, he wouldn't have been stabbed in the back of the knee, and he wouldn't have had a sword that was shoved in his face.

So, again in conclusion. The King of the Dead you could barely see his spirit, but he had no body, so he couldn't harm you physically and he himself couldn't be harmed physically. The Witch-King, was invisible (if he didn't have his cloak) but he still had a physical presence, which is why he could be killed. Which means, it would be a draw, because the King of the Dead could not have killed the Witch-King, unable to harm him, and the King of the Dead...well he was already dead with no body, so the Witch-King couldn't defeat him.
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Last edited by Boromir88; 08-09-2006 at 04:19 PM.
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