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**lindil** · 04-04-2003, 03:53 PM

As an expansion upon the list given by Meela, I decided to finally commit the following to cyber-space.

It is designed to minimize the number of times I have to read that someone 'could not get into' the various writings of the Silm, UT and HoM-E. Hopefully it will help with selection and pacing of reading the seriously vast legendarium.

Begining with Meela's [and pretty much everybodies recommended begining points]

A - the Hobbit
B - LotR

then depending on your perceived interest:

*Letters [JRRT's commentaries on Life, Hobbit/LotR/Silm and Religion]

or if you want to dive even deeper into the LotR before going on you can go for Tom Shippey's *'Author of the Century'. Easily the best book 'about' the Legendarium around that is not designed for M-E geeks.

or The Adventures of Tom Bombadil [if you love Hobbits]

or Silmarillion [if you love Elves]
The Silmarillion really ups the ante in terms of the attention demanded in reading it. On page 26 of the 2nd ed. large format pb [opened at randon] I counted more or less 22 words [mostly names] in Elvish. There is a lot of names, places and events usually described in Elvish, and when you are used to that, then you get one of several competing translations.

For example Turin is called: Mormegil, Neithan, Agarwaen son of Umarth, Turambar, and probably at least one more I missed.

If you are the kind of person that absorbs things slowly then no NOT rush into the Silm, or if you start if after only one reading of the LotR take your time, do not be concerned with getting it all the first time [ I know at 13 0r 14 - I did not!] After a few chapters I sensed I really liked it but felt swamped so I just read through it lightly [ as paradoxical as that is] and the second time it all made sense, and ever since I have been most moved by the SIlm and UT [and later the X and XI parts of HoM-E]

After that everyone agrees Unfinished Tales should be next, but if you have not made it to Letters yet, it would be a very good time [before UT that is]. Also re-reading the LotR and Silm again is not a bad idea before tackling UT. UT makes far less sense if one has not got a good grasp of the Silm and LotR appendices. It's footnotes are widely held to be one of the greatest treasure troves of delightful obscurantia in all of the Legendarium.

UT gives one the first taste of the History of Middle-Earth Series [HoM-E]. And is almost a best of, except it came out earlier and CJRT had no plan to issue 'everything' of his fathers at that point, so it is a selection based on CJRT's perceived interest of readers, what he liked apparently and what was considered feasible in terms of the rest of the Legendarium and the Silmarillion.

Also extremely valuable before tackling HoM-E is Carpenters JRR Tolkien: A Biography.

So to summarize at this point we are up to:

A - The Hobbit
B - The LotR/appendices
C- LotR again or Letters or Silm or Road to Middle-Earth or Adventures of Tom Bombadil
D- UT and any of above not yet finished and the Biography.

Again a re-reading of all of the above befoer venturing on to the HoM-E series is hardly out of order. BTW, most of the older posters here at the Downs had no choice but to re-read the LotR before the Silm because it only came out in 77, same with LotR/Silm multiple times before UT [80].

~~~
A note on the HoM-E: it is a huge and sprawling affair, Aiwendil recommends reading it in order to more or less get the story from the begining to end. This is more or less true but the contents in Volume 3 and 12 are especially spread out in time. Now most if you have made it through the above and found that UT especially had a fascination for you, all of the alternate versions, footnotes and Commentary, that is what you are heading for in HoM-E, there is no way to disguise that fact. As CJRT says at one point, the footnotes are 'thick on the ground'. Unlkie UT which was still designed for moreor less popular consumption, HoME is for fanatics and scholars.

E - History of Middle-Earth:[I will refer to them mostly by the preceding roman numeral after this]

I - The Book of Lost Tales, Part 1 the earliest wrinings of the Legendarium and Silmarillion particular. C. 1917-20's
II- The Book of Lost Tales, Part 2
III -The Lays of Beleriand poems dating from just after Lost Tales and before the Hobbit buit with revisions of Beren and Luthien dating to the era just after LotR was written. CS lewis early commentary too, very nice.
IV - The Shaping of Middle-Earth: The Quenta, The Ambarkanta and the Annals
V - The Lost Road and Other Writings [/i] Silmarillion as it stood during the writing of the Hobbit. C. 1930 - the only 2 complete Silmarilion versions that were ever written.

VI-IX The History of the Lord of the Rings~ variant LoTR drafts, lots of them, and a fwe illustrations and maps too.
VI - The Return of the Shadow
VII- The Treason of Isengard
VIII - The War of the Ring

IX - Sauron Defeated [in addition to being the conclusion of pt. IV a radical reworking of the prior Lost Road mateial is to be found called the Notion Club papers, containg vast amount of information on Aduniac and interesting Aduniac centerd Akallabeth varients. Also included is Imram a poem in St. Brendan's seeking 'Elfland'.

we return again to the Silmarilion materials worked on after the LotR

X - Morgoth's Ring: The Later Silmarillion, Part One : The Legends of Aman and much morec. 1950's

XI - The War of the Jewels: The Later Silmarillion : Part Two : The Legends of Beleriand c. 1950's

XIIThe Peoples of Middle-Earth c.1950's and 60's - 72.

The disadvantage of reading it in order is that the Book of Lost Tales [1 and 2] are so different in tone and detail from the Silmarillion that many are put off.

Personally I suggest working more or less backwards [X, XI, XII, V, IV, II, I, II and finally, VI-IX] unless:

you love hobbits and the LotR the most, then go for the History of the LotR of the Rings so called [sold in a 3 and 1/4 book pb version these days][VI-IX] then these varrying drafts of the LotR will probably fascinate you.

If you loved the Silmarillion the most then I would suggest this order: X, XI, XII, V, IV, III, I, II

If you are most interested in the Languages then: V for the Etymologies, XI for Quendi and Eldar and then XI for Aduniac, and XII for the Shibboleth and Problem with Ros. Also www.elvish.org has journal called Vinyar Tengwar, wherein many writings of JRRT on linguistics are now being released via CJRT to a team of editors. Very reasonably priced @ 2$ each.Also the Road Goes ever n is essntial for linguistic matters, now back in print in the UK.

IF you loved the LotR appendices and the last fwe sections of UT the most: XII will be the one for you.

for more info,commets and reviews of UT and HoM-E this thread is the best we currently have.

[ April 04, 2003: Message edited by: lindil ]

04-04-2003, 03:53 PM	#4
lindil Seeker of the Straight Path Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: a hidden fastness in Big Valley nor cal Posts: 1,680	As an expansion upon the list given by Meela, I decided to finally commit the following to cyber-space. It is designed to minimize the number of times I have to read that someone 'could not get into' the various writings of the Silm, UT and HoM-E. Hopefully it will help with selection and pacing of reading the seriously vast legendarium. Begining with Meela's [and pretty much everybodies recommended begining points] A - the Hobbit B - LotR then depending on your perceived interest: Letters [JRRT's commentaries on Life, Hobbit/LotR/Silm and Religion] or if you want to dive even deeper into the LotR before going on you can go for Tom Shippey's 'Author of the Century'. Easily the best book 'about' the Legendarium around that is not designed for M-E geeks. or The Adventures of Tom Bombadil [if you love Hobbits] or Silmarillion [if you love Elves] The Silmarillion really ups the ante in terms of the attention demanded in reading it. On page 26 of the 2nd ed. large format pb [opened at randon] I counted more or less 22 words [mostly names] in Elvish. There is a lot of names, places and events usually described in Elvish, and when you are used to that, then you get one of several competing translations. For example Turin is called: Mormegil, Neithan, Agarwaen son of Umarth, Turambar, and probably at least one more I missed. If you are the kind of person that absorbs things slowly then no NOT rush into the Silm, or if you start if after only one reading of the LotR take your time, do not be concerned with getting it all the first time [ I know at 13 0r 14 - I did not!] After a few chapters I sensed I really liked it but felt swamped so I just read through it lightly [ as paradoxical as that is] and the second time it all made sense, and ever since I have been most moved by the SIlm and UT [and later the X and XI parts of HoM-E] After that everyone agrees Unfinished Tales should be next, but if you have not made it to Letters yet, it would be a very good time [before UT that is]. Also re-reading the LotR and Silm again is not a bad idea before tackling UT. UT makes far less sense if one has not got a good grasp of the Silm and LotR appendices. It's footnotes are widely held to be one of the greatest treasure troves of delightful obscurantia in all of the Legendarium. UT gives one the first taste of the History of Middle-Earth Series [HoM-E]. And is almost a best of, except it came out earlier and CJRT had no plan to issue 'everything' of his fathers at that point, so it is a selection based on CJRT's perceived interest of readers, what he liked apparently and what was considered feasible in terms of the rest of the Legendarium and the Silmarillion. Also extremely valuable before tackling HoM-E is Carpenters JRR Tolkien: A Biography. So to summarize at this point we are up to: A - The Hobbit B - The LotR/appendices C- LotR again or Letters or Silm or Road to Middle-Earth or Adventures of Tom Bombadil D- UT and any of above not yet finished and the Biography. Again a re-reading of all of the above befoer venturing on to the HoM-E series is hardly out of order. BTW, most of the older posters here at the Downs had no choice but to re-read the LotR before the Silm because it only came out in 77, same with LotR/Silm multiple times before UT [80]. ~~~ A note on the HoM-E: it is a huge and sprawling affair, Aiwendil recommends reading it in order to more or less get the story from the begining to end. This is more or less true but the contents in Volume 3 and 12 are especially spread out in time. Now most if you have made it through the above and found that UT especially had a fascination for you, all of the alternate versions, footnotes and Commentary, that is what you are heading for in HoM-E, there is no way to disguise that fact. As CJRT says at one point, the footnotes are 'thick on the ground'. Unlkie UT which was still designed for moreor less popular consumption, HoME is for fanatics and scholars. E - History of Middle-Earth:[I will refer to them mostly by the preceding roman numeral after this] I - The Book of Lost Tales, Part 1 the earliest wrinings of the Legendarium and Silmarillion particular. C. 1917-20's II- The Book of Lost Tales, Part 2 III -The Lays of Beleriand poems dating from just after Lost Tales and before the Hobbit buit with revisions of Beren and Luthien dating to the era just after LotR was written. CS lewis early commentary too, very nice. IV - The Shaping of Middle-Earth: The Quenta, The Ambarkanta and the Annals V - The Lost Road and Other Writings [/i] Silmarillion as it stood during the writing of the Hobbit. C. 1930 - the only 2 complete Silmarilion versions that were ever written. VI-IX The History of the Lord of the Rings~ variant LoTR drafts, lots of them, and a fwe illustrations and maps too. VI - The Return of the Shadow VII- The Treason of Isengard VIII - The War of the Ring IX - Sauron Defeated [in addition to being the conclusion of pt. IV a radical reworking of the prior Lost Road mateial is to be found called the Notion Club papers, containg vast amount of information on Aduniac and interesting Aduniac centerd Akallabeth varients. Also included is Imram a poem in St. Brendan's seeking 'Elfland'. we return again to the Silmarilion materials worked on after the LotR X - Morgoth's Ring: The Later Silmarillion, Part One : The Legends of Aman and much morec. 1950's XI - The War of the Jewels: The Later Silmarillion : Part Two : The Legends of Beleriand c. 1950's XIIThe Peoples of Middle-Earth c.1950's and 60's - 72. The disadvantage of reading it in order is that the Book of Lost Tales [1 and 2] are so different in tone and detail from the Silmarillion that many are put off. Personally I suggest working more or less backwards [X, XI, XII, V, IV, II, I, II and finally, VI-IX] unless: you love hobbits and the LotR the most, then go for the History of the LotR of the Rings so called [sold in a 3 and 1/4 book pb version these days][VI-IX] then these varrying drafts of the LotR will probably fascinate you. If you loved the Silmarillion the most then I would suggest this order: X, XI, XII, V, IV, III, I, II If you are most interested in the Languages then: V for the Etymologies, XI for Quendi and Eldar and then XI for Aduniac, and XII for the Shibboleth and Problem with Ros. Also www.elvish.org has journal called Vinyar Tengwar, wherein many writings of JRRT on linguistics are now being released via CJRT to a team of editors. Very reasonably priced @ 2$ each.Also the Road Goes ever n is essntial for linguistic matters, now back in print in the UK. IF you loved the LotR appendices and the last fwe sections of UT the most: XII will be the one for you. for more info,commets and reviews of UT and HoM-E this thread is the best we currently have. [ April 04, 2003: Message edited by: lindil ] __________________ The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night exchanging lore & wisdom such as they still possessed that they should not fall back into the mean estate of those who never knew or indeed rebelled against the Light.