Much to respond to here, but I don't have a lot of time. I shall have to return, as there are some very interesting discussion points crystallising here.
This is just to say that, in response to
Formy that, by what I have said, I meant no offence to anyone. I was simply "laying my cards on the table". There is much in Christianity (and other faiths) that troubles me and, as some of these issues were, I thought, relevant to the ongoing discussion, I thought it necessary to identify them. There is intransigence on both "sides" yes (although I am not sure that there really are "sides" as such, merely a collection of varying approaches, beliefs, attitudes) but everyone has to have a starting point in a discussion. I am certainly willing to adapt, and even change, my opinions if I am persuaded as to the merits of a particular approach or argument. Of course, in this, I am guided by rationality, rather than faith, as you will probably have picked up, and in this regard there will always be something of an "unbridgeable gap" between those who are "of faith" and those who are not.
Which brings me on to the issue of the suitability and relevance of many of the matters being discussed here on a Tolkien-based forum. Although I did start from the point of view that there is a comparison to be made between the differing approaches of those with faith to a book like LotR and the Bible (and I want to come back on
lmp's well-made points on this), I tend to agree with
davem that there is relevance on this forum in the wider discussion too. We have, in various Tolkien-based discussions, skirted around the edge of discussing our approaches towards religion generally, and sometimes dipped our toes in. But it is generally regarded as a somewhat taboo subject here on the Downs, both for the sensitivies involved (ie the capacity that it has to cause offence) and the fact that it is not strictly Tolkien-related.
Nevertheless, I do sometimes find it difficult to discuss these kinds of issues, in relation to Tolkien's works, without "laying my cards on the table" in a more general way, as I have done to an extent in earlier posts. I therefore do think that there is a place for a more general religious discussion on a forum such as this and, while it is important to respect the sensitivities of others, it will in such a discussion be inevitable that some things will be said that fundamentally impact on the strongly held beliefs of others.
Finally, for now:
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Elempi
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it would be fair to say that God's test to you, SPM, is simple belief that a God who loves can allow evil into the world.
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If I may say so,
lmp, that is an extremely interesting, and rather insightful, comment, and something that I will hopefully have an opportunity to come back to.