[Formendacil]

First off, a bit of housekeeping…

Originally Posted by Diamond

Form, I'm a little unclear on one point, I realize. Is it sufficiently Tolkien-reasoned to cast a vote for one charater to save another, if one's reasons for saving said other character are suffciently Tolkien-based? I.E., is sparing Fimbrethil enough excuse to vote against anyone else?

No. If that’s YOUR reason for saving Fimbrethil, then by all means vote Elrond, but your vote for Elrond should be given reason to do with Elrond.

Thanks for asking, as I don’t think that particular point has been clarified.

Now, on to the counting of the votes:

Originally Posted by Diamond

In my mind, and this may sound strange but it is true, the most damning thing Elendil ever did was name his sword Narsil. Of course, technically Tolkien only says, "...and it was named Narsil" but we can safely assume that Elendil, being the first owner of said sword, would have been the one to christen it. Narsil is, forgive me, the most butt-ugly name in all of Tolkiendom. It sounds like the bastard love child of an air freshener and a hair removal product. Thank goodness Aragorn had the sense to rename it. Wouldn't you rather weild Andúril? I know you would.

I'll get you, my pretty,

+ + Elendil,

and your little sword too!

This vote is not COUNTED. Elendil is dead.

Originally Posted by SPM

And so, without further ado:

+ + ELROND

My reasoning.

First, he should, by rights, already have gone.

Secondly, he has already had a number of tries at winning a Survivor contest and failed on each occasion. His desperation to win is rather unappealing and faintly sad in one who should be dignified.

Thirdly, he is a cissy.

Of course, none of those reasons will count.

And so, fourthly:

It seems entirely inappropriate to me, in the midst of the turmoil of the Second Age, for one who should have been contributing so much more to the struggle to absent himself from it for large periods in order to establish what was, effectively, a Middle-earth hippy commune. All that telling tales round the fireplace, singing “Tra-la-la-lally, down here in the valley” and communing with nature is all very well, and charming in its place, but not when the forces of Sauron are encamped on one’s doorstep.

It might be said that establishing a stronghold and defending it with great power provided a valuable refuge for Elves in such a time of trouble. But that, surely, is not the true Noldorin way. Any Noldor worth his salt should be looking for any opportunity to engage the enemy and be willing to nobly sacrifice himself and his people in a vain but glorious effort to make his mark. Did Elrond not learn from the First Age that hiding away in a secret refuge very rarely comes to any good and, at the very least, does irreparable harm to one’s reputation? Just ask yourself. Which First Age Noldorian gained the greatest notoriety. Feanor or Turgon? Elrond was the Turgon of his Age.

To his credit, Elrond did march with Gil-Galad in the War of the Last Alliance, but Gil-Galad was clearly so unimpressed with his battle skills, after all that arty, tree-hugging Imladris stuff, that he relegated him to the role of a mere standard bearer. “You just carry that pretty little flag, Elrond, and keep yourself out of any trouble,” he no doubt said.

And Elrond even bungled the one serious job which fell to him in the entire endeavour, that of persuading Isildur to destroy the Ring. Had he been able to accomplish just that one, simple task, a lot of fuss and bother would have been avoided.

Need I explain this one? SPM’s vote is COUNTED.

Originally Posted by Anguirel

And so I shall vote once again against the supreme exemplar of fascistic, militaristic, non-hung loose unchilledness.

++SAURON

Just like Elrond, he's been in every Survivor so far; but he won't admit it, hiding beneath aliases like "Gorthaur" or "The Necromancer". He's even come second once, but he's still not satisfied. He thinks he has a "right" to win; he needs to be disillusioned, and soon.

I'm talking to an electorate that has, despite some blips, generally supported the downtrodden and relatively obscure. Anarion, Ohtar and Amandil have been protected before their illustrious relatives.

Can such an electorate allow Sauron-the most predictable, tedious, megalomaniac candidate of them all-to progress?

Erm… Anguirel, guess what… Your vote almost didn’t get counted. Without that reference to Sauron’s predilection for aliases in your first paragraph, you’d be without a Tolkien-based foot to stand on.

COUNTED, barely…

Originally Posted by Celuien

There is another Elf far more worthy of eviction. I speak of the responsibility shirking Cirdan.

While Elrond was in Rivendell, defending a stronghold against Sauron and Celeborn/Galadriel did the same in Lorien, what was Cirdan doing? Nothing. Sitting at the Havens building ships and just waiting to leave for Elvenhome. Further proof of his complete disinterest in aiding the Free Folk of Middle-earth is demonstrated in his giving his ring away to Gandalf. Obviously he was looking for someone else to take over the job he was entrusted with when given his ring. Thus, Elrond deserves to stay. Cirdan does not.

++CIRDAN

Celuien refers directly to Círdan’s actions of building ships and giving Narya to Gandalf.

COUNTED

Originally Posted by Tuor of Gondolin

+ + Tar-Miriel

Suffice it to say she was no Boudica (Boadicea). Numenorean feminists must have been very disappointed in her. There could have been a cool civil war, with perhaps elvsees with bright, shining swords helping out the king's (queen's) men/fighters/whatever.

It's difficult to imagine Eowyn, Galadriel, Lobelia, etc. reacting in such a supine manner. (Picture of Lobelia goingafter Ar-Pharazon with her umbrella).

I’m not completely sure that I should be including this vote, but on the balance I think the speculation regarding the consequences of Tar-Míriel not putting up a fight to Pharazôn to be admissible.

COUNTED

Originally Posted by arcticstorm

While his skills may be interesting, such as reading moon letters and calling large counsels to argue the fate of the entire free world, he really doesn't do much to help his tribe, therefore for staying at home and sending others to their doom while he remains in his comfortable homely house reading hidden letters on maps ++Elrond.

Although I fail to see how being able to read moon-letters is a reason for eviction, it’s a clear link to The Hobbit, and despite Davem’s apparent claims to the contrary, that book is within the pale of Middle-Earth.

COUNTED

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Of course I met nothing serious. Royalty had it's power back in the day, but now you have to admit the Royal line is basically a figure head that has real little power. Anway, how it connected to Arwen is she is the "Estel" or hope of her people, basically a figurehead with little power. The only way she tastes a bit of authority is when she marries the King of Gondor.

Which I must say is another strike against Elrond. What's the junk about him only letting Arwen marry the King of Gondor? What the King of Rohan or say a Lord of a distant land isn't good enough for him? What's this him setting restrictions on who his daughter can and can't marry, that's Shakesperean era .

Good enough for me. I have now been thoroughly convinced:

++Elrond

Boromir refers to Elrond’s requirement that Aragorn be High King of Gondor and Arnor ere he marry Arwen. Vote COUNTED.

Originally Posted by Anguirel

Since you all seem to be Dark Lord cuddlers:

--SAURON, ++FIMBRETHIL

The true example here of an emasculating wife...heartlessly abandoning her faithful spouse, leaving him in spasms of grief which he's still pouring into song an Age later. What irresponsibility she shows to te continuation of her kind! And what a bad example she sets to the other Entwives!

She's far worse than Tar-Aldarion, but essentially guilty of the same sin...only she made it permanent.

Send her off!

A biased recounting of the estrangement of the Ents and the Entwives, I’m inclined to think, but a valid reason. Vote change COUNTED.

Originally Posted by Celuien

None taken by this soon-to-be-senior med student.

I sympathize with sterotype-defying trailblazers, which Elrond would be if your argument is correct. It takes courage and true leadership to take on such a role. More points for Elrond.

--Cirdan
++FIMBRETHIL

Indeed, Fimbrethil contributed nothing of note to Middle-earth history. As such, she doesn't deserve to be here. Besides, it was unfair to run out on Fangorn, who is a gem among Ents.

A part of me is tempted to say that there really isn’t a reason given here to count the vote as changed. It being a grey area, I’ll accept as admissible the rationale that Fimbrethil contributed nothing of note to ME history. Seems to be true…

Changed vote COUNTED

Originally Posted by Elu Ancalime

I dont know if this is Tolkien based but

++Elrond because as herald to Gil-Galad, that makes him a kind of bodyguard. Being a herald, he is to protect peace, and should have sacrificed him self in front of Sauron to give GG time to fall back, perhaps.

Looks Tolkien-based to me. Tolkien definitely wrote that Elrond was Gil-galad’s herald. Whether or not that means that he should have done more than he did is debatable…

COUNTED.

Originally Posted by Diamond

Just in case it is not, I am going to express some opinion on the ongoing debate about Elrond. I find the points about him letting his sons do most of the work, and declaring who may marry his daughter (and when) to be rather convincing. I had actually forgotten about his dealings in the Arwen matter (clouded as they are by the movie version, I fear). One might say he was exceedingly kind to let Aragon marry Arwen at all -- but I say piffles. Arwen was not a child and therefore he had no right to say anything about whoever and whenever she chose to marry. That's just more males controlling the females, and like Fimbrethil, I say I can do without, thankyouverymuch.

And then of course there are the tra la la lally's down in the valley.

I cast a vote for Elendil earlier, being confused about who had been evicted. Since he's not even a contestant anymore maybe I don't need to do this, but just for clarity's sake:

- - Elendil

+ + Elrond

Direct references to the parental control of Elrond over Arwen- vote COUNTED.

Originally Posted by Firefoot

++Elrond

For such a major character, he really is not as complex as he could be. Everything just sort of happens to him; the only place where he seems to actually take real iniative in something is in founding Rivendell. He's something of a dud among his family. Let's compare: Earendil - duh... Elwing - same category. Shouldn't a son of these parents be destined for absolute greatness? Children: Arwen - may not do much, but page for page she is a heck of a lot more interesting and developed that Elrond. Elladan and Elrohir - don't have much of a chance to do much, but do what they can - avenge Celebrian's death (what does Elrond do? sit around and mourn), ride to war (again, what does Elrond do? sit around). And, as has already been said, he sure doesn't do much in the Last Alliance. The one time he had a real opportunity to make a difference was when Isildur takes the Ring - but Elrond doesn't do a very good job of persuading him otherwise.

Elrond seems to be a prime example of wasted potential.

A complete recounting of Elrond’s life… albeit in a rather biased light. Perfectly admissible. COUNTED.

I choose
++ELROND

Why?
Sure, he's a nice guy. I throughly approve of the multi-cultural refuge, it's a great idea, but I'm sure someone else can take over the room bookings and the ring and so on if he goes.
My reasons:
1. A strategic vote (which I hope is admissable grounds) to save Fimbrethil, whose marital plight deserves some sympathy. I'm not saying Fangorn doesn't have some excellent points, but as a spouse he would drive you bonkers. And if she goes, we will never, never know what really did happen to the Entwives.

2. Because it would be so nice for brother Elros to outlast Elrond in Survivor, as quite the reverse happened in Real Middle Earth...

As mentioned at the head of this post, saving someone else is a fine REASON to vote, but not admissible criteria for the counting of that vote. However, Lalaith refers to Elrond’s longer lifespan than Elros’. This is a grey area, since to whom does this properly refer: Elrond or Elros? Is it a reason to boot the one, or a defence of the other?

COUNTED.

Originally Posted by the Phantom

+ + Fimbrethil

What did she do besides ditch her husband and keep a garden? That's not much compared to Elrond. And Fimbrethil and her friends likely got whacked by Sauron, while Elrond on the other hand, he helped make the plans and aided the people who whacked Sauron. The choice between Elrond and Fimbrethil seems clear to me.

Similar situation as Celuien’s changed vote. Admitted on the same grounds.

COUNTED

Originally Posted by Littlemanpoet

It has come to my attention that this infamous Fimbrethil had the nickname of "Wandlimb". This nickname, according to certain sources at my disposal, was apparently quite apt. She was in the business of selling her own limbs as magical! Now, Ents may be quite fascinating creatures, but this "magical" business is obviously spurious. So not only does she leave Treebeard high and dry, she also trades of her own person for profit and that with a falsehood. Most disgraceful.

++ Fimbrethil

I must confess to being completely forgetful as to if Fimbrethil is ever called Wandlimb in Tolkien’s works…

However, LMP is admitted anyway on the “abandonment of Treeebeard” plea. COUNTED.

Originally Posted by lord of dor-lomin

Hmm...who to pick, who to pick?

On one hand, a wise, powerful, kind, and humble elf lord.

On the other hand, a walking tree best known for choosing gardening over her lover.

Tough decision.

+ + Fimbrethil

Grey areas again… I shall call it permissible, since the reference to Fimbrethil as a “walking tree”, “choosing gardening over her lover”, while not specific to her situation, but to Entwives in general, is definitely Tolkien-based.

COUNTED.

Originally Posted by Fea

Fimbrethil is really too stupid to be allowed to stick around. As evidence, she chose an idiotic spot for her gardens- too close to Mordor. If she had any brain at all she'd have had the sense to move someplace safer once Sauron grew strong. I rather expect that she was purposefully putting herself in harm's way in order to lure Treebeard and the other ents out of their woods. If we get rid of Fimbrethil, it will allow Treebeard to give his full attention to winning the game.

++Fimbrethil

One of the better anti-Fimbrethil arguments I think we’ve seen- a direct reference to the choice of the Entwives’ gardens: the Brown Lands, a clearly Tolkien detail.

COUNTED

Originally Posted by TPOTSS

The choice between Elrond and Fimbrethil seems pretty clear cut to me, though. Just look at the way they felt about their significant other.

Elrond- He did everything he could to heal his wife so she could stay with him in Middle Earth. Unfortunately for him, it didn't work out.

Fimbrethil- She just picked up and left her mate, and never came back.

Honestly, how cold is that? Then again, what do you expect from an overgrown stick?
++Fimbrethil

Very similar to lord of dor-lomin’s vote. COUNTED, on the same grounds.

Originally Posted by Lhunadaga

I don't really have it in mind to have Elrond win this season of Survivor, but I'm already convinced that he should stay longer than most contestants.

Like Fimbrethil, for example. How stupid of her to leave Fangorn hanging. And this is the über-lovable Treebeard we're talking about! He certainly does not deserve her, so it's a good thing she left after all.

Besides, I can hardly resist a chance to irk the great Wolfman Sauce.

++FIMBRETHIL

Yet another reference to the departure of the Entwives. COUNTED

Okay, toDay is now over. Any votes posted from this point on will be counted towards tomorrow’s tally.