[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Originally Posted by the phantom

You'll notice I never used that reasoning myself. I thought it was senseless, but seeing as they were voting a way that didn't bother me I didn't see the need to say anything. Got it?

Of course I get it, but I still think that it's a bit unfair to grumble only against JennyHallu just because she voted for a character you like. But that's not essential here, so never mind.

And, wow, you actually looked up Vilya in the Encyclopedia of Arda? I honestly didn't think you had thought this thing through that much. I suppose I should give you some credit for that, though your information is wrong. According to the appendix in LOTR, Gil-galad "before he died gave his ring to Elrond". But Rivendell was founded in 1697, nearly 1,800 years before Gil-galad's death.

Also, Rivendell was founded only four years after the three Elven Rings were hidden, and we know Vilya was originally given to Gil-galad.

What! The day when the Encyclopedia of Arda is wrong, the skies will rain crickets and Finland wins the Eurovision Song Contest!

Let's see... I quote you, phantom:

Gil-galad "before he died gave his ring to Elrond".

Rivendell was founded in 1697, nearly 1,800 years before Gil-galad's death.

I don't see how these two sentences would rule out the possibility that Elrond used Vilya to found Rivendell. And as long as I don't see the contradiction, I keep using the Encyclopedia of Arda as my source material against Elrond.

Not to mention the fact that Rivendell was founded while SAURON HAD HIS RING! During that time, the elves DIDN'T USE THEIR RINGS. So even if Elrond somehow had Vilya in his possesion during that time, he didn't use it.

So, no- Elrond did not use Vilya to found Rivendell, no matter what your precious encyclopedia may say.

Well, my precious encyclopedia says:

"Elrond remained in Rivendell, where he prospered with the aid of the Great Ring, Vilya."

and

"It [Rivendell] lay in a deep valley in the western foothills of the Misty Mountains, and endured, under the protection of Elrond's Ring Vilya."

So, at least at some point Vilya was used. Whether it was used when Rivendell was founded or not, it is not so important. Anyone can put up a tent in some valley and call it a refuge.

I think you should be willing to change your vote just out of respect for the facts I've brought up. And if not for that reason, you should change your vote because it pains me to see someone so beautiful make such an ugly decision.

*hopes flattery will work*

I think you should be willing to vote for Elrond just out of respect for the facts I have brought up. And if not for that reason, you should vote for him because it pains you to see me voting a different character than you.


++ELROND