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mark12_30 · 02-28-2003, 08:29 PM

After reading about Tom Bombadil and the eagles, and recalling the point my high school english teacher made... don't ask how long ago! Anyway:

Deus Ex Machina does not, to me, seem to apply to any of Tolkien's characters at all. (Especially not to Tom Bombadil!) My impression of a Deus Ex Machina is that the introduction of the DEM is an inherent breaking of the rules; that the DEM intervenes in a campy, unsatisfying rescue that essentially removes the hero's chance to be a hero.

Tom Bombadil would be DEM, I suppose, except for the fact that the Old Forest was enchanted to begin with. Tom doesn't break any rules. He's as wierd as the forest. Two guys eaten by a tree? Come on! If you expect the next thing that happens to be normal, or the next person to come along to be average and boring, what are you thinking?

It would be like walking into Mirkwood and expecting no good magic. Only spiders and no elves.

Likewise, on another thread, it's been argued-- why didn't the eagles just fly the ring to Mount Doom in the first place? Why the whole quest? And one of the responses was, because the airspace over Mordor was controlled by Sauron and his ringwraiths. So they could have tried, but they would have ended up in a direct confrontation (kinda cool to imagine, a "dogfight" between Gandalf on an eagle, and the Lord of the Nazgul on his "Not-A-Pterodactyl".)

But to continue: You've got dragons in the North, especially Smaug guarding the Lonely Mountain; why are Giant Eagles any more surprising? And you've got "Wraiths on Wings" in the south guarding Mordor; why should the reappearance of the Giant Eagles bother us?

At least the Eagle's commander (Gwaihir? Thorondor?...?) had the sense not to deploy them until they had a chance of effectiveness, instead of wasting them early on in the war and not having them later when they were critical.

And in terms of Gandalf's resurrection: Tolkien had laid the foundation for the return of dead Elves, the Halls of Mandos and their reincarnation, long before he wrote the Lord of the Rings. The story of Feanor's mum, who dies and refuses to return to her hubby, proves that. Feanor was ancient history for Gandalf. So the resurrection/reappearance/whatever you choose to call it is, once again, consistent with Tolkien's world-- not a mechanical contrivance.

Back to the eagles: if we criticise the eagles for showing up 'every' time somebody good needs air power (and there were plenty of times they didn't show up when they would have been handy) then don't we also have to criticise the Ringwraiths for showing up 'every' time somebody needs a good scare or a dose of the Black Breath? Fair's fair...

--Helen

02-28-2003, 08:29 PM	#33
mark12_30 Stormdancer of Doom Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars Posts: 4,349	After reading about Tom Bombadil and the eagles, and recalling the point my high school english teacher made... don't ask how long ago! Anyway: Deus Ex Machina does not, to me, seem to apply to any of Tolkien's characters at all. (Especially not to Tom Bombadil!) My impression of a Deus Ex Machina is that the introduction of the DEM is an inherent breaking of the rules; that the DEM intervenes in a campy, unsatisfying rescue that essentially removes the hero's chance to be a hero. Tom Bombadil would be DEM, I suppose, except for the fact that the Old Forest was enchanted to begin with. Tom doesn't break any rules. He's as wierd as the forest. Two guys eaten by a tree? Come on! If you expect the next thing that happens to be normal, or the next person to come along to be average and boring, what are you thinking? It would be like walking into Mirkwood and expecting no good magic. Only spiders and no elves. Likewise, on another thread, it's been argued-- why didn't the eagles just fly the ring to Mount Doom in the first place? Why the whole quest? And one of the responses was, because the airspace over Mordor was controlled by Sauron and his ringwraiths. So they could have tried, but they would have ended up in a direct confrontation (kinda cool to imagine, a "dogfight" between Gandalf on an eagle, and the Lord of the Nazgul on his "Not-A-Pterodactyl".) But to continue: You've got dragons in the North, especially Smaug guarding the Lonely Mountain; why are Giant Eagles any more surprising? And you've got "Wraiths on Wings" in the south guarding Mordor; why should the reappearance of the Giant Eagles bother us? At least the Eagle's commander (Gwaihir? Thorondor?...?) had the sense not to deploy them until they had a chance of effectiveness, instead of wasting them early on in the war and not having them later when they were critical. And in terms of Gandalf's resurrection: Tolkien had laid the foundation for the return of dead Elves, the Halls of Mandos and their reincarnation, long before he wrote the Lord of the Rings. The story of Feanor's mum, who dies and refuses to return to her hubby, proves that. Feanor was ancient history for Gandalf. So the resurrection/reappearance/whatever you choose to call it is, once again, consistent with Tolkien's world-- not a mechanical contrivance. Back to the eagles: if we criticise the eagles for showing up 'every' time somebody good needs air power (and there were plenty of times they didn't show up when they would have been handy) then don't we also have to criticise the Ringwraiths for showing up 'every' time somebody needs a good scare or a dose of the Black Breath? Fair's fair... --Helen __________________ ...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve.