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Old 07-09-2002, 02:26 PM   #57
Child of the 7th Age
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Cimmerian --

Interesting post, esecially the part about fantasy in the 1920s and 1930s.

I agree with your idea that Tolkien would have rejected the models of scantily clad women in fantasy from the 1920s and 1930s as being very different from his own ideals.

But there were other models he could have drawn on. The one that immediately springs to mind is the Welsh myth cycle the Mabinogion (which is available in a modern rendition by Evangeline Walton.) Tolkien was undoubtedly familiar with these myths in the original Welsh. And while they do have some figures of allure, there are many other archetypes, including that of the older wise woman which could provide him with ideas.

Having said that, I will repeat again that Tolkien does a much better job than the other Inklings rendering women in his stories. He shows both the goodness and physical attraction of women like Eowyn, Galadriel, Goldberry, and, to a lesser extent, Arwen which is no small feat! But I do feel that more could have been done, with different types and kinds of female characters--mothers, older women, younger sisters, etc. I, for one, would have loved to learn just a bit more about Rose Cotton with whom Sam would be spending the rest of his life!

Quote:
Then would you still call this man a sexist for his work that so flawlessly respects womanhood, and that which I believe is more for women tan against. This some of you need to realise.
I may be incorrrect, but I think I sense some underlying frustration in that final sentence. Please correct me if I have read something into it which isn't there.

No one in this entire thread, I believe, is saying that Tolkien is sexist. It is not a question of sexism. Rather, we are talking about whether Tolkien's depiction of women is one of the strengths of his work, or whether there were ways he might have approached this topic from a slightly different angle to achieve a slightly different result.

We are also talking about how Tolkien's depictions of women have struck each of us personally. Some have stressed the positve things they love in Tolkien's female characters, while others point to aspects they wish he had changed or enlarged.

As much as I love Tolkien, and I have loved his writings for over thirty-five years, I am not prepared to say that he was "perfect" as a writer. There are passages and characters I love passionately with my whole heart, and others where I might have some questions or even reservations. There are whole topics, like the earlier history of hobbits, which may be more important to me than to another reader, and I therefore miss its presence more sorely than someone else might.

Does this mean I could write fantasy even remotely as good as he did? Obviously not!! Even if I were alive two hundred years, I could not produce something of the quality which shows in the Hobbit, LotR, or the Silm. But that doesn't stop me from opening my mouth to express an opinion, and the same could be said for most others on the board.

There are things we like more, and things we like a bit less. That is all this thread is saying. By no stretch of the imagination, or by any reasonable definition, could Tolkien be called a sexist,

sharon, the 7th age hobbit
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