[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Anguirel

I've recounted and, alas, Saucey got it wrong. Dori is still with us, boringly enough.

Doh! Must have been all those changes of vote.

Still, good result yesterday when all is said and done.

As for Gloin:

Originally Posted by Anguirel

1. Endorsed theft, specifically burglary

The quoted statement doesn't imply anything of the kind. The Quest of Erebor itself, being as it required a burglar, admittedly does implicitly condone theft. But that implicates all of the remaining Dwarves.

Originally Posted by Anguirel

2. Discriminated against a co-worker on a height-related basis ("bobbing about on the doormat")

Since when was bobbing on doormats exclusively the preserve of the vertically-challenged? The words are merely descriptive of the state in which Gloin first encountered Bilbo.

Originally Posted by Anguirel

3. Implied discrimination on racial basis (that Bilbo is a Hobbit)

Not really. The statement is directed specifically towards Bilbo, not Hobbits in general.

Originally Posted by Anguirel

4. Displayed hauteur and contempt for honest trade off which Gloin and his penniless aristo leech friends feed, to wit grocery

Gloin was merely stating that Bilbo seemed more like a grocer than a burglar to him. A reasonable comment to make in the circumstances and not, in itself, insulting towards grocers.

Originally Posted by Anguirel

5. Mocked home comforts, to wit doormat

Eh? You are definately reading far too much into this.

Originally Posted by Anguirel

6. Showed hypocrisy ("I had my doubts"-why didn't he raise them earlier?)

He was showing courtesy and restraint. He was prepared to give Bilbo a chance to show his mettle as a burglar.

Originally Posted by Anguirel

Later evidence also shows that his son Gimli-though thankfully intelligent and open-minded enough to change-was brought up to be a hardened Dwarf supremacist.

Hmm, you rather over-egg the case here. But, to the extent that there is truth in what you say, the same applies to most Dwarves and certainly to the majority of Thorin's company (Balin being the possible exception).

I hold no particular candle for Gloin, although I feel that he ought to be accorded due respect as Gimli's father. And his words to Frodo at Rivendell show that he has mellowed with age. In any event, there are a number of Dwarves that I would rather see go before Gloin.

As I mentioned before, Fili and Kili are both brave and noble Dwarves, but they are pretty much interchangeable so we can afford to lose one of them. Randomly, I shall choose:

++ KILI