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Old 01-16-2004, 03:09 AM   #15
doug*platypus
Delver in the Deep
 
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Join Date: Dec 2002
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Quote:
I know, I should have said "the Scottish play"...
That's okay, Estelyn, I believe that's only if you're acting in it. See, I'll prove it... Macbeth Macbeth Mac*OW!!! my foot!! #$$@*&!!!

I haven't studied Macbeth in depth (by which I mean I wasn't paying attention in English), so how exactly is prophecy used there? I may venture a guess that the old hags on the withered heath plant the kernels of ideas in Macbeth and Banquo, creating self-fulfilling prophecies?

If this is the case, then certainly Tolkien treats (or should I say uses) prophecy in a different manner. My thinking is along the same lines as that of Aldagrim and Arwen, but I would go even further. I think that prophecies and insights in Arda are unshakeably accurate (at least as far as we are shown). Malbeth (Paths of the Dead and Arvedui), Gandalf (Gollum), Faramir (Gollum), Frodo (Sam and kids), Glorfindel (Witchy) and Saruman (the fates of Frodo and Galadriel) all make perfect predictions.

Galadriel does indeed state that "some never come to be, unless those that behold the visions turn aside from their path to prevent them" but I don't see this manifesting itself in Tolkien's writings. It seems more like a clause or a footnote, so that even though all prophecies are fulfilled, The Professor has still made an important point. You can't be always be completely certain of what the future holds (even if you are a Vala). Even the very wise cannot see all ends, because (as in the case of Frodo's failure being doomed to happen) they are not The Writer of the Story, or Ilúvatar.
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