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Originally Posted by davem
If the Music happened in 'Eternity' it cannot therefore have happened 'before' anything (or 'after') for that matter. Perhaps we're talking 'above/below' rather than 'before/after'?
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Does it matter? What changes by replacing 'temporal' terms with 'spatial' ones? With equal success, I may have said that Music happened a little to the left from the World. The fact is that we do not know relation between 'eternity' and 'time'. Per instance, my Table-Rope analogy suggests just another term - 'outside'. It would suffice to say Time and Eternity are things apart. To me, though, it seems, that eternity may be like a three (or more) -dimensional time, and part of it which is 1-D 'vectorial flow' is our Time (or part of it
we percieve so).
Simultaneous - well may be. It is for an 'ant on the rope' that events seem to replace one another in succession of 'time-flow'.
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Originally Posted by alatar
is my perceived difference in foreknowledge in the two different worlds a problem for Tolkien
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I don't think it is. In 'real world' theology, it is not (as far as my knowledge reaches, and that is quite limited store) defined how much of the World's history do the angels know. But even taking as granted that angels do not know, and Valar do, what difference it makes for relation between Eru and Eruhini, and between Man and Creator? How exactly knowledge that some number of angels may have known what would have happened to you in any given moment, changes your attitude? Imagine that you are thirsty, and further that I know about the fact. How does the fact change your thirst? Does water taste worse for the fact I knew you would drink it?
In Orthodox theology there is a term 'teogumen' (if I remember it correctly). I could not find translation employing online resources, but generally it stands for 'idea of a person in faith, which is not officially accepted by the Church, but does not contradict it's general teaching and is acceptable to be had by the person'. It seems to me that God's Word (which is not defined in Bible as to what did it sound like) seen as Music is such a 'teogumen'. It seems to me that Host of Angels (as Valar) who may have 'worked' in Creation (even if after it was accomplished), since we do not have direct indication that they did not take any part in 'working' in it, may be a 'teogumen' as well.
Satan/Minion - it seems to me wonderfully rendered with Melkor/change of the name to Morgoth, as a mark of turning point in his 'career'.
It seems to me...