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bombur · 10-09-2002, 04:58 AM

I think the Eleves did not know how to fight. Not really. When Noldor came to valinor, the aqqured many skills, power of charachter and presence that followed seeing the trees etc. Likely they also had many sports keeping up and enhanceing their physical proves. I can somehow see Feanor ****ed off by having lost the Valinor Wrestling championship to Tulkas. They hunted, propably with bows and spears. But when they made swords and weapons of war for the family feud, they hid them from Valar, knowing that Valar would not have approved of their existance.

I think Tolkien shared my view of what combat and battle is.

When Noldor came back to Middle Earth, they decimated the orcs they encountered. If you are twise as quick and strong as you opponent is, full of rage and a thing that your opponent fears... It matters little that you do not have black belt in kung fu with sword kata. Noldor were smart enough to know theoretically how sword was supposed to be wielded and their own inner qualities made them efficient, not martial training.

I think we view many things in the saga through the shades of people too influenced by marvel comics and action movies. This is evident for example in discussion of maiar. Someone commented there that "why would sauron be able to fly." In epic sagas flight wiothout functional wings is impossible no matter how powerful one is. Only in marvel comics can one fly with power instead of flying with wings [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] In viewing combat we make the same errors, having seen too many kung fu movies. Think for a moment who Tolkien was. When he was young man, he had bee trained to parade on a school yard and then he was sent to Belgium. It is rather likely that he discovered first hand that the issue of who has a bayonet in ones belly is decided by other factors then "training" for the use of bayonet.

Things like "combat skills" come to matter only when two people face each other in so much an equal ground that neither turns tail and runs to get it in the back, that neither has surprise, that neither is strong enough just to punch through others defence and go on, that neithers hand is pushed to the side by the flow and ebb of medieval battlefield, etc.

Janne Harju

[ October 09, 2002: Message edited by: bombur ]

10-09-2002, 04:58 AM	#2
bombur Wight Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: finland Posts: 126	I think the Eleves did not know how to fight. Not really. When Noldor came to valinor, the aqqured many skills, power of charachter and presence that followed seeing the trees etc. Likely they also had many sports keeping up and enhanceing their physical proves. I can somehow see Feanor ****ed off by having lost the Valinor Wrestling championship to Tulkas. They hunted, propably with bows and spears. But when they made swords and weapons of war for the family feud, they hid them from Valar, knowing that Valar would not have approved of their existance. I think Tolkien shared my view of what combat and battle is. When Noldor came back to Middle Earth, they decimated the orcs they encountered. If you are twise as quick and strong as you opponent is, full of rage and a thing that your opponent fears... It matters little that you do not have black belt in kung fu with sword kata. Noldor were smart enough to know theoretically how sword was supposed to be wielded and their own inner qualities made them efficient, not martial training. I think we view many things in the saga through the shades of people too influenced by marvel comics and action movies. This is evident for example in discussion of maiar. Someone commented there that "why would sauron be able to fly." In epic sagas flight wiothout functional wings is impossible no matter how powerful one is. Only in marvel comics can one fly with power instead of flying with wings [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] In viewing combat we make the same errors, having seen too many kung fu movies. Think for a moment who Tolkien was. When he was young man, he had bee trained to parade on a school yard and then he was sent to Belgium. It is rather likely that he discovered first hand that the issue of who has a bayonet in ones belly is decided by other factors then "training" for the use of bayonet. Things like "combat skills" come to matter only when two people face each other in so much an equal ground that neither turns tail and runs to get it in the back, that neither has surprise, that neither is strong enough just to punch through others defence and go on, that neithers hand is pushed to the side by the flow and ebb of medieval battlefield, etc. Janne Harju [ October 09, 2002: Message edited by: bombur ]