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Beleg · 12-09-2005, 11:59 AM

Well, I would just like some enlightenment on the question.

People answer Galadriel for example. Before Galadriel (and Elves more generally) were other beings like the Valar. Yet, the Valar left Middle-Earth. So, the question is, who is the oldest on Middle-Earth (excluding the Valar but not Tom Bombadil). In this case, yes Galadriel could be the oldest (it is an example as the existence of Bombadil and Fangorn makes this example unlikely)

Or, is it about to discuss who's the oldest since the creation of Arda? I think the oldest are the Ainur without any doubt from that point of view.

If it's to guess who's the oldest being left on ME (so, after the departure of the Valar), maybe we can consider that Sauron is very old. He was one of the Maiar and can be even older than Galadriel.

The Eagles can be very old as well, it is said in the chapter II of the silmarillion:
Manwë speaking to Yavanna Kementari: "Cela aussi reviendra, au gré d'Iluvatar, et avant l'éveil des Enfants les Aigles des Seigneurs de l'Ouest s'élèveront à nouveau comme le vent" (in substance: the Eagles will rise again before the awakening of the children)

Anyway, the debate on Bombadil and Fangorn allows to say that they are maybe one of the few oldest beings left on ME, and maybe Fangorn and the Old Forest were created right after the coming of the Valar (and Bombadil was one of the Maiar who were with them).

I don't think for myself that we will ever be sure who is the oldest between Fangorn and Bombadil. So, i will answer stupidly and in an obvious way: the Ainur are the oldest. (I don't take part in this Bombadil debate.)
Did you get my point?

12-09-2005, 11:59 AM	#80
Beleg Animated Skeleton Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Between France and Doriath Posts: 42	Well, I would just like some enlightenment on the question. People answer Galadriel for example. Before Galadriel (and Elves more generally) were other beings like the Valar. Yet, the Valar left Middle-Earth. So, the question is, who is the oldest on Middle-Earth (excluding the Valar but not Tom Bombadil). In this case, yes Galadriel could be the oldest (it is an example as the existence of Bombadil and Fangorn makes this example unlikely) Or, is it about to discuss who's the oldest since the creation of Arda? I think the oldest are the Ainur without any doubt from that point of view. If it's to guess who's the oldest being left on ME (so, after the departure of the Valar), maybe we can consider that Sauron is very old. He was one of the Maiar and can be even older than Galadriel. The Eagles can be very old as well, it is said in the chapter II of the silmarillion: Manwë speaking to Yavanna Kementari: "Cela aussi reviendra, au gré d'Iluvatar, et avant l'éveil des Enfants les Aigles des Seigneurs de l'Ouest s'élèveront à nouveau comme le vent" (in substance: the Eagles will rise again before the awakening of the children) Anyway, the debate on Bombadil and Fangorn allows to say that they are maybe one of the few oldest beings left on ME, and maybe Fangorn and the Old Forest were created right after the coming of the Valar (and Bombadil was one of the Maiar who were with them). I don't think for myself that we will ever be sure who is the oldest between Fangorn and Bombadil. So, i will answer stupidly and in an obvious way: the Ainur are the oldest. (I don't take part in this Bombadil debate.) Did you get my point? __________________ Ash nazg durbatulûk, ash nazg gimbatul, ash nazg thrakatulûk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul Last edited by Beleg; 12-09-2005 at 12:05 PM.